Drones, drones, drones

[pilatus]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakin...ee-799143.html

A nice story involving the use of drones for a change. Obviously more capable, longer range and longer endurance should be the way to go, but still, a nice first step.

[barrybadrinah]

"Man takes hobby drone aboard ship"...

[pilatus]

Hobby drone records footage of people trafficker disguising himself to avoid justice in absence of shiny military drone while also defusing a situation preventing someone innocent getting shot on the high seas. What's your point with the negativity, why bother saying something negative unless it adds to a constructive conversation?

It reminds me of one of Plato's quotes and someone on the forum had it set as their signature for a while,
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something".

[Sparky42]

What do you want to say?

It's an improve solution, one that's happened I guess because those that sign off on the budget won't sign off on anything actual military rated (Scan Eagle for example), and the suggestion that IMERC is going to develop something domestically for the Navy rather than buying something already developed seems dumb to me as well.

[pilatus]

Excuse me, the Plato post was in reply to the mocking post from the previous member. Is this the norm on IMO now? Everyone insult/mock when they see a thread they don't agree with? I simply shared an article to point out the usefulness of drones and how this commercially available model was used to the ships advantage. I received a mocking reply making little of the thread and I replied in kind. Still lots of pessimism and nay sayers in here, sums up the general attitude in this country and why nothing gets done.

[The real Jack]

This has been discussed already in the thread about the trips in the med, the NS are showing the DOD they can get by with a toy so how are the DOD going to approve buying something with 10+ times the endurance that costs millions not thousands? Waiting for imerc to invent something instead of tendering for a real system from elbit/Lockheed/Thales is madness. Even if imerc invent a capable system tomorrow it'll still have to win an open tender competition against systems in use operationally all over the world with the support that comes with that. Imagine if the army waited for the Irish sugar workshops to invent a MG in lieu of just buying the MAG!

A better story would be NS jury rigs army drone to use on ship, proves it's a useful capability and uses lessons learned when constructing tender package for real naval UAS.

[ancientmariner]

Excuse me, the Plato post was in reply to the mocking post from the previous member. Is this the norm on IMO now? Everyone insult/mock when they see a thread they don't agree with? I simply shared an article to point out the usefulness of drones and how this commercially available model was used to the ships advantage. I received a mocking reply making little of the thread and I replied in kind. Still lots of pessimism and nay sayers in here, sums up the general attitude in this country and why nothing gets done.

Your comments have value. When introducing any new system you must not paint yourself into a corner rather start in house using levels of technology that work for your pro temp needs. As skills and needs expand then re-equip and commit some SOP's to paper until you reach the stardards required by the Naval Service.Initially drone flying could be a sub-specialisation similar to Naval Divers. A ScanEagle level may be suitable for the new MRV/Logs ship but will need a different level of skills and equipment to cover out of sight operations.
The US Navy disabled a major ship when struck by a target Drone that gunfire failed to stop.

[morpheus]

There is a tender out for quadcopters - we've already seen it, yes its by the army, but we are moving in the right direction.
NS needs to evaluate and get operational experience with drones before they know exactly what type that they want.
in meantime mavic pros or DJI's or whatever these are are a cheap useful learning tool.
Also i saw a photo on facebook of LE WBY taken ... and I quote "from her UAV" so the naval service are already classing a commercial drone as an operational military asset
https://www.facebook.com/irishnavals...type=3&theater
Its plain that something with a 25 minute endurance is not going to cut it in any maritime weather states bar the glassy flat calm of the mediterranean as it is currently being used.

[barrybadrinah]

Hobby drone records footage of people trafficker disguising himself to avoid justice in absence of shiny military drone while also defusing a situation preventing someone innocent getting shot on the high seas. What's your point with the negativity, why bother saying something negative unless it adds to a constructive conversation?

It reminds me of one of Plato's quotes and someone on the forum had it set as their signature for a while,
"Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something".

REEL HIM IN BOYS! Do you really flash like this at even a modest piss take?!

Let's be fair, taking it in the context of drone use worldwide, it's hardly a game changer. I'm pleased that there was a positive outcome (even though I totally disagree with the migrant mission) but publishing that story was just pointless. Great, some 'PR' but that's just going to feed back to the smugglers now, won't it?

[expat01]

Proof of concept - necessary to prove to the department that even in the special universe the Irish defence establishment inhabits, drones are useful. Just because other navies use them doesn't mean ours can or should. See helicopters for reference.
Then when they've bought in, show why the drones being used are insufficient and push for improvement.
Slowly slowly catchee monkey.

[ancientmariner]

Proof of concept - necessary to prove to the department that even in the special universe the Irish defence establishment inhabits, drones are useful. Just because other navies use them doesn't mean ours can or should. See helicopters for reference.
Then when they've bought in, show why the drones being used are insufficient and push for improvement.
Slowly slowly catchee monkey.

That is the Defence problem having to prove anything to a non- professional. Items judged on cost alone, or a Civil servants judgement of need will lead firmly to policing capabilities only. The essential chain in target engagement/interception at sea is decent target classification. Drones have opened up that possibility beyond the visual horizon.

[expat01]

That is the Defence problem having to prove anything to a non- professional. Items judged on cost alone, or a Civil servants judgement of need will lead firmly to policing capabilities only. The essential chain in target engagement/interception at sea is decent target classification. Drones have opened up that possibility beyond the visual horizon.

The problem with explaining anything at all relating to military or policing to the middle class Irish.
The only reason the army have anything to shoot is because the idea of a soldier without a helmet and rifle requires a degree of left-field novel thinking that the civil service are incapable of.
Thank heavens for small mercies.

[TangoSierra]

What do you want to say?

It's an improve solution, one that's happened I guess because those that sign off on the budget won't sign off on anything actual military rated (Scan Eagle for example), and the suggestion that IMERC is going to develop something domestically for the Navy rather than buying something already developed seems dumb to me as well.

Scaneagle?

$4 million a pop when you factor in life cycle costs

http://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/uas...20Bird%20Brief

[Jetjock]

Scaneagle?

$4 million a pop when you factor in life cycle costs

http://www.c4isrnet.com/unmanned/uas...20Bird%20Brief

What's your point?

Pay buttons, get a toy.

[The real Jack]

What's your point?

Pay buttons, get a toy.

Exactly, if you get the dod used to buying COSTS equipment it's a hard battle to get them to buy proper military gear - I'm sure the Israelis make a "navalised" UAV to fit every realistic price bracket

[ancientmariner]

Exactly, if you get the dod used to buying COSTS equipment it's a hard battle to get them to buy proper military gear - I'm sure the Israelis make a "navalised" UAV to fit every realistic price bracket

The Scaneagle is a derivative of the Seascan drone designed to aid fishermen (US) to track tuna. The version used by naval and military has performed well on land and at sea. Due to it's launch and recovery configuration , it is very suitable for a ship with a flight deck. The training recommended for aeronautical Launch and Recovery specialists, and controllers is about 3 months with the manufacturer training unit or possibly another Navy already qualified to train such as RCN or RN.
An air unit (UAV) consists of 4 aircraft plus one Launch unit, One recovery gantry, starting motor, etc. The cost in 2006 was about 3.2M USD for the complete unit. The gantry is fitted with a GPS homing unit that guides the aircraft in to be wing hooked by a special shock absorbing cable. Ideal for P31 or similar ships. Range is 100km and endurance up to 20 hours.
The ideal scenario would be 4 Uav's plus two Launch and Recovery systems to allow for shore side training.

[na grohmití]

The recent hobby drone use is no different to a few years ago the use of R/C helicopters as a low cost alternative to A/A targets for secondary weapon training aboard ship. The NS has been experimenting with hobby drones for many years. I remember seeing a smartphone controlled version being demonstrated at an open day about 6 or 7 years ago.
It isn't a case of buying something on the cheap though, more a case of well meaning individuals trying to demonstrate a concept to a disinterested civil service audience. The only other way this was done in the past was by working with aother nation overseas using such technology, and making sure their technology got into as many photos intended for home as possible.
The EOD Hobo was designed for the Irish Army by an Irish company in the 80s. The proven success has seen the company sell its licence to build HOBO and its successors to other nations. Likewise Timoney, designed vehicles for irish use, proved the concept and sold in greater numbers to others. The point is our procurement system is so disfunctional, people on the ground have to come up with alternative ways to be supplied with equipment that other nations consider mandatory items.

[Rhodes]

The US Army has banned all DJI drones, the Chinese company made the drone the Naval Service are using.

U.S. Army bans use of Chinese-made drones due to 'cyber vulnerabilities'

....A U.S. Army memo .... published online, ordered Army personnel to cease all use of Dajiang Innovation products, uninstall all DJI applications, remove all batteries/storage media from devices, and secure equipment for follow on direction.

"Due to increased awareness of cyber vulnerabilities associated with DJI products, it is directed that the U.S. Army halt use of all DJI products," the memo stated. "This guidance applies to all DJI UAS and any system that employs DJI electrical components or software including, but not limited to, flight computers, cameras, radios, batteries, speed controllers, GPS units, handheld control stations, or devices with DJI software applications installed."....

https://www.upi.com/US-Army-bans-use...2211501936320/