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  • #16
    Why isn't there a F Uck Yeahhhhhhhhh button.
    didnt we talk about not posting on p.ie lol
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
      So the only thing the Cavalry corps is ashamed of is Mr Horgan.
      Beaverettes weren't the best of choices ever!
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • #18
        Thinking that our neighbours should lay up, after preservation, troop carrying strategic vessels , such as HMS Ocean amphibious assault and Command ship, and Fleets Flag ship, rather than delete her to save money and lose critical operational advantage. The new CV's are not a replacement and must stay afloat to launch aircraft and be there to receive them back. The latest breeds of MOD Secretary's have little sense of the importance of naval Power, and it's presence, in the realm of World influence.

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        • #19
          The RN have already decided to bin both their Amphib ships in order to keep the carriers afloat. An admiral has resigned in protest. The Problem may lie with their "government" who seem intent on messing the whole country up, but much of the blame falls firmly on the First Sea Lord, head of the RN, who approved the proposal.
          The Royal Navy could lose ability to assault enemy-held beaches, under plans considered in the MoD.
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • #20
            Well I'm not sure he alone should be blamed,, the decades of cuts have left the RN with nothing but the bare bones of the fleet, there's nothing left to cut that isn't going to have massive impacts on the capabilities of the RN. Short of real and sustained budget increases there's not really any option left.

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            • #21
              Yes there is. Abandon brexit, and hope Sterling recovers so the UK can again fund its day to day expenses.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • #22
                That's not the Admiral's call nor even the MOD's and frankly there's nobody in Westminster that's going to make that call. So within the reality that they face there's nothing they can do except cut.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                  Yes there is. Abandon brexit, and hope Sterling recovers so the UK can again fund its day to day expenses.
                  AND keep critical tonnage in reserve to cover inevitable " rainy " days . Don't sell or scrap prematurely .

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                    AND keep critical tonnage in reserve to cover inevitable " rainy " days . Don't sell or scrap prematurely .
                    I wonder if they have the budget left for such, keeping modern hulls in reserve is expensive enough on it's own rights, and the RN just doesn't have the bodies to regenerate numbers quickly at this stage, with both the projected costs (26's, QE's, SSBN's) and the unexpected (45 fix, the new 31 project, the Rivers), keeping the operational numbers is their only choice.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                      That's not the Admiral's call nor even the MOD's and frankly there's nobody in Westminster that's going to make that call. So within the reality that they face there's nothing they can do except cut.
                      The admiral would have served the Senior service better by allowing his ships to be laid up, where the British public can see them, and ask their MP why this is so. The RN rot has been happening since the new carriers were first planned, and has been well flagged in Naval circles. They are still playing at being a Naval Super Power, without the ability or the requirement to do so. The STOL carriers were retired to make room for CATOBAR ships. Then the CATOBAR ships became STOL ships, after the RN has dumped all its STOL fixed wing aircraft. There is still not enough Carrier Escorts built or planned to keep a carrier group at sea for prolonged periods, let alone extend the UKs reach across the globe. To do so would only be possible while removing its presence in the rest of the world, including home waters.
                      Meanwhile capital ships are quietly being deleted and sold, often without the knowledge of Military Authorities.
                      RFA Largs Bay was snapped up by the RAN. It broke down on its way to the Southern Hemisphere, and no spares were available.
                      The First of the River Class was decommissioned recently after barely 14 years in service. Prematurely retired to make way for vessels being built only to keep the british shipbuilding industry active.
                      RFA Diligence, a submarine tender was axed with no replacement sought. RFA Argus is rumoured to be for the chop soon also.
                      How much more are they willing to cut just to keep the dream of Aircraft carriers alive (even if their aircraft are still a long, long way off.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                      • #26
                        Is it just me or is the quote function acting up?

                        In terms of laying up the ships, you assume that enough of the public would care? I mean there was no massive public outrage when the RFA hull contract went to South Korea instead of UK yards. Nor when the Batch 2 Rivers were bought just to justify the money given to BAE, nor the fact that the 26's are a joke of project management.

                        The Rot of the RN started long before the Carriers (which were always most likely to be STOL hulls, the chances of the CATOBAR were slim all the time), but again it was masked and ignored by the politicians and public.
                        As for the choices since, you're ignoring certain facts, Largs Bay was flogged off because of it's material condition, the RN new her faults and the cost for fixing her, so flogged her off to the RAN who didn't check the conditions (like the Upholder's to Canada).
                        Where the RN is, is a result of 2-3 decades of stupidity, shortsightedness and political ignorance, none of the choices left to the admirals will change that, even if they had flogged off POW like suggested in 2010 they'd still be in this state imo.

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                        • #27
                          If there were numerous grey rusting hulls taking up space at the anchorages in Devonport and Portsmouth, middle England wouldn't be long kicking up a fuss. Ships should be at sea, not laid up.
                          And definitely not laid up in prime yachting territory.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                          • #28
                            How much of a fuss was made when the RN did so before? Didn't save the Battleships that hung around in reserve, or the Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers...
                            What I'm a bit surprised at is that the RN seems to hit repeated cycles of manpower issues along with their capital expenditure issues.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                              If there were numerous grey rusting hulls taking up space at the anchorages in Devonport and Portsmouth, middle England wouldn't be long kicking up a fuss. Ships should be at sea, not laid up.
                              And definitely not laid up in prime yachting territory.
                              If you are going to dispose of ships built in 1995 ( Eithne built in 1984 ) and one of them is your Flag/Command ship, then it would be prudent to follow the US example and retain HMS Ocean at short notice of about three months. Having a Reserve in Military/Naval terms must surely mean being able to call on extra tonnage to do a Falklands or something similar. Decks are critical for moving assets when required. Closing major dockyard facilities is also another limiting factor to keeping ships operational

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Sparky42 View Post
                                Is it just me or is the quote function acting up?

                                In terms of laying up the ships, you assume that enough of the public would care? I mean there was no massive public outrage when the RFA hull contract went to South Korea instead of UK yards. Nor when the Batch 2 Rivers were bought just to justify the money given to BAE, nor the fact that the 26's are a joke of project management.

                                The Rot of the RN started long before the Carriers (which were always most likely to be STOL hulls, the chances of the CATOBAR were slim all the time), but again it was masked and ignored by the politicians and public.
                                As for the choices since, you're ignoring certain facts, Largs Bay was flogged off because of it's material condition, the RN new her faults and the cost for fixing her, so flogged her off to the RAN who didn't check the conditions (like the Upholder's to Canada).
                                Where the RN is, is a result of 2-3 decades of stupidity, shortsightedness and political ignorance, none of the choices left to the admirals will change that, even if they had flogged off POW like suggested in 2010 they'd still be in this state imo.
                                Not the first time the RAN have being suckered by a second hand ship salesman.

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