2017 Cadet class

[trellheim]

started day before yesterday with 108 members.

https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...87713391595520

It'll be like west point lol

[DeV]

started day before yesterday with 108 members.

https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...87713391595520

It'll be like west point lol

All the offices are currently in containers and the blocks are being refurbished

[ODIN]

Great that there are a lot of people getting in. If they took on this many when I went for it in 2012, I would have gotten in :P

But does this point to a bigger issue in the DF, if this number of cadets are being taken in, obviously there is a massive shortage in the junior ranks. What guarantee does the DF have that it will hold these guys five years? The private sector is a tempting proposition to young and ambitious graduates. An interesting article on the millennial applicant https://goo.gl/vLCUjj,

Millennials tend to be far less patient in their careers than Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers and, as such, employers are investing heavily in the need to understand and cater to these behaviours.

The DF does not promote officers on meritocracy in the junior ranks, so, will the millennial generation have patience that outweighs their ambition, especially when they see former colleagues climbing in the current competitive careers market.

[DeV]

We saw it on another thread.

There had been a huge number of Lts over establishment for a number of years and then lots of vacancies for Capt & Comdt.

This to me would say that promotion competitions weren't being run (mainly due to the financial situation).

The last figures I saw were that there were approx 30 vacancies for army capts and around 15 for Lts.

Lack of promotion is going to be a push factor. It will effect morale and take home pay.

[morpheus]

Yellow pack LTs will be fired out the far end of the green machine unless then invest in the time and instructors for these people.

[DeV]

Yellow pack LTs will be fired out the far end of the green machine unless then invest in the time and instructors for these people.

???

[morpheus]

When you go from a class size of 50 to a class size of 100, and dont ensure that you invest enough time, instruction and enforcement of the standards that they are held to vs the standards that their predecessors were held to, purely in an effort to play the numbers game and ensure that you get enough out the gate.... then you end up with a lower quality of graduate and some who would have been kicked off the previous courses. Lets hope that that doesn't happen. These larger classes are an effort to stem the loss of officers in the defence forces.

[DeV]

When you go from a class size of 50 to a class size of 100, and dont ensure that you invest enough time, instruction and enforcement of the standards that they are held to vs the standards that their predecessors were held to, purely in an effort to play the numbers game and ensure that you get enough out the gate.... then you end up with a lower quality of graduate and some who would have been kicked off the previous courses. Lets hope that that doesn't happen. These larger classes are an effort to stem the loss of officers in the defence forces.

TBH I think they should have kept the 21 months and increased cadet pay

I very much doubt standards will be diluted and it isn't as if they will have sections of 20 instead of 10

[Truck Driver]

I'd say instructors are getting pulled in from all angles to supplement the permanent staff of Scoil na nDaltaí

[DeV]

I'd say instructors are getting pulled in from all angles to supplement the permanent staff of Scoil na nDaltaí

Nothing me there but was talking to an instructor who commutes a long enough distance and things the instructors allowance is worth it

[apod]

When you go from a class size of 50 to a class size of 100, and dont ensure that you invest enough time, instruction and enforcement of the standards that they are held to vs the standards that their predecessors were held to, purely in an effort to play the numbers game and ensure that you get enough out the gate.... then you end up with a lower quality of graduate and some who would have been kicked off the previous courses. Lets hope that that doesn't happen. These larger classes are an effort to stem the loss of officers in the defence forces.

100% Bang on.Even the existing officers are saying it.The DF is going to s**t because we have kids instructing Kids with no experience behind them.

I'd say instructors are getting pulled in from all angles to supplement the permanent staff of Scoil na nDaltaí

Correct.The posting is for 12 Months so it is widely unpopular with some lads/lasses with young families being detailed because "it's an honour" to Instruct up there.No SIC allowance,unlike the permanent staff,but it's an Honour

Nothing me there but was talking to an instructor who commutes a long enough distance and things the instructors allowance is worth it

Bollocks.That guy is either naive or stupid. €25 a week Instructor allowance. Duties on the weekends,so away from home two weeks at a time. Kept in the school by the RSM even when not rostered for a class for days. Wear and tear on car.I could go on and on.
The only reward is a 667B and a point.

[DeV]

100% Bang on.Even the existing officers are saying it.The DF is going to s**t because we have kids instructing Kids with no experience behind them.


Correct.The posting is for 12 Months so it is widely unpopular with some lads/lasses with young families being detailed because "it's an honour" to Instruct up there.No SIC allowance,unlike the permanent staff,but it's an Honour



Bollocks.That guy is either naive or stupid. €25 a week Instructor allowance. Duties on the weekends,so away from home two weeks at a time. Kept in the school by the RSM even when not rostered for a class for days. Wear and tear on car.I could go on and on.
The only reward is a 667B and a point.

Can only go on what I was told he said it was happier (and had a shorter commute (both are long distance) than in the Bn

[trellheim]

fk sake ? 25 a week extra - is that really all it is ?

[Fridge Magnet]

fk sake ? 25 a week extra - is that really all it is ?

For attached instructors, yes.

[trellheim]

whaaat but thats shite

[apod]

whaaat but thats shite

Yup.100% shit.

[hptmurphy]

The DF is going to s**t because we have kids instructing Kids with no experience behind them

.

Dunno about that, Wifes cousin is gone in as a cadet with three years 12bn behind him..hardly a red arse, good switihed on youngfella. Chances are from 108 cadets some will have made the jump from the ranks.

[na grohmití]

.

Dunno about that, Wifes cousin is gone in as a cadet with three years 12bn behind him..hardly a red arse, good switihed on youngfella. Chances are from 108 cadets some will have made the jump from the ranks.

Some doing so because it was the only way to remain in the DF and still be able to afford to live.

[apod]

They are in the minority.Trust me.
We have people promoted on a friday and sent to the College on a monday to instruct.In any other Army in the world there is no way that would be allowed.
You need to have walked the walk to talk the talk.
Utter madness.

[hptmurphy]

They are in the minority.Trust me.
We have people promoted on a friday and sent to the College on a monday to instruct.In any other Army in the world there is no way that would be allowed.
You need to have walked the walk to talk the talk.
Utter madness.

Its no way unique in the army, believe me, I've seen a nurse qualified two days left in charge of a facility because he was the only one available and because he received his certification 24hrs before his colleague.

So should secondment to training establishments be mandatory rather that voluntary to deal with the shortage of suitably qualified people?

is the tail wagging the dog?

[X-RayOne]

Mandatory secondments might solve the problem regarding shortage of suitably qualified personnel but would only further increase shortages in Bn's etc.

Bigger issue is systemic under staffing of the DF as a whole and retention. Mandatory secondments may also be the final push that fed up senior NCO's might need to make the decision to leave also, further reducing experienced numbers.

[barrybadrinah]

They are in the minority.Trust me.
We have people promoted on a friday and sent to the College on a monday to instruct.In any other Army in the world there is no way that would be allowed.
You need to have walked the walk to talk the talk.
Utter madness.

Much the same across the water my man, much the same.

[hptmurphy]

Mandatory secondments may also be the final push that fed up senior NCO's might need to make the decision to leave also, further reducing experienced numbers.

But if that creates career vacancies for people not so fed up is that actually a bad thing?

Poor morale will cause more problems than lack of experience, experience can be gained but, if people lose interest how do you motivate people to do the best at their work and gain the experience?

Restoration of pay would go along way towards re establishing some of the morale. But as within the rest of the public sector the changes have been so cutting that elements of the morale and the knowledge that should things take a turn for the worst we will always be in the firing line, irreparable damage has been done.

[Truck Driver]

But if that creates career vacancies for people not so fed up is that actually a bad thing?

Poor morale will cause more problems than lack of experience, experience can be gained but, if people lose interest how do you motivate people to do the best at their work and gain the experience?

Restoration of pay would go along way towards re establishing some of the morale. But as within the rest of the public sector the changes have been so cutting that elements of the morale and the knowledge that should things take a turn for the worst we will always be in the firing line, irreparable damage has been done.

Would argue that a better balance needs to be struck between maintaining force experience and freeing up vacancies for career progression for those coming from behind
Don't envy those who have to figure out how, mind you...