Thanks Thanks:  6
Likes Likes:  15
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. #1
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,129
    Post Thanks / Like

    2017 Cadet class

    started day before yesterday with 108 members.

    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...87713391595520

    It'll be like west point lol
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  2. Likes terrier liked this post
  3. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    started day before yesterday with 108 members.

    https://twitter.com/defenceforces/st...87713391595520

    It'll be like west point lol
    All the offices are currently in containers and the blocks are being refurbished

  4. #3
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,812
    Post Thanks / Like
    Great that there are a lot of people getting in. If they took on this many when I went for it in 2012, I would have gotten in :P

    But does this point to a bigger issue in the DF, if this number of cadets are being taken in, obviously there is a massive shortage in the junior ranks. What guarantee does the DF have that it will hold these guys five years? The private sector is a tempting proposition to young and ambitious graduates. An interesting article on the millennial applicant https://goo.gl/vLCUjj,

    Millennials tend to be far less patient in their careers than Baby Boomers and Gen-Xers and, as such, employers are investing heavily in the need to understand and cater to these behaviours.
    The DF does not promote officers on meritocracy in the junior ranks, so, will the millennial generation have patience that outweighs their ambition, especially when they see former colleagues climbing in the current competitive careers market.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  5. Likes terrier liked this post
  6. #4
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    We saw it on another thread.

    There had been a huge number of Lts over establishment for a number of years and then lots of vacancies for Capt & Comdt.

    This to me would say that promotion competitions weren't being run (mainly due to the financial situation).

    The last figures I saw were that there were approx 30 vacancies for army capts and around 15 for Lts.

    Lack of promotion is going to be a push factor. It will effect morale and take home pay.

  7. Likes terrier liked this post
  8. #5
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Metropolis
    Posts
    2,985
    Post Thanks / Like
    Yellow pack LTs will be fired out the far end of the green machine unless then invest in the time and instructors for these people.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  9. #6
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    Yellow pack LTs will be fired out the far end of the green machine unless then invest in the time and instructors for these people.
    ???

  10. #7
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Metropolis
    Posts
    2,985
    Post Thanks / Like
    When you go from a class size of 50 to a class size of 100, and dont ensure that you invest enough time, instruction and enforcement of the standards that they are held to vs the standards that their predecessors were held to, purely in an effort to play the numbers game and ensure that you get enough out the gate.... then you end up with a lower quality of graduate and some who would have been kicked off the previous courses. Lets hope that that doesn't happen. These larger classes are an effort to stem the loss of officers in the defence forces.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  11. Thanks apod thanked for this post
    Likes Truck Driver liked this post
  12. #8
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    When you go from a class size of 50 to a class size of 100, and dont ensure that you invest enough time, instruction and enforcement of the standards that they are held to vs the standards that their predecessors were held to, purely in an effort to play the numbers game and ensure that you get enough out the gate.... then you end up with a lower quality of graduate and some who would have been kicked off the previous courses. Lets hope that that doesn't happen. These larger classes are an effort to stem the loss of officers in the defence forces.
    TBH I think they should have kept the 21 months and increased cadet pay

    I very much doubt standards will be diluted and it isn't as if they will have sections of 20 instead of 10

  13. #9
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Here And There...
    Posts
    10,172
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'd say instructors are getting pulled in from all angles to supplement the permanent staff of Scoil na nDaltaí
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  14. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    I'd say instructors are getting pulled in from all angles to supplement the permanent staff of Scoil na nDaltaí
    Nothing me there but was talking to an instructor who commutes a long enough distance and things the instructors allowance is worth it

  15. #11
    Lt General apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    4,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    When you go from a class size of 50 to a class size of 100, and dont ensure that you invest enough time, instruction and enforcement of the standards that they are held to vs the standards that their predecessors were held to, purely in an effort to play the numbers game and ensure that you get enough out the gate.... then you end up with a lower quality of graduate and some who would have been kicked off the previous courses. Lets hope that that doesn't happen. These larger classes are an effort to stem the loss of officers in the defence forces.
    100% Bang on.Even the existing officers are saying it.The DF is going to s**t because we have kids instructing Kids with no experience behind them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    I'd say instructors are getting pulled in from all angles to supplement the permanent staff of Scoil na nDaltaí
    Correct.The posting is for 12 Months so it is widely unpopular with some lads/lasses with young families being detailed because "it's an honour" to Instruct up there.No SIC allowance,unlike the permanent staff,but it's an Honour

    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Nothing me there but was talking to an instructor who commutes a long enough distance and things the instructors allowance is worth it
    Bollocks.That guy is either naive or stupid. €25 a week Instructor allowance. Duties on the weekends,so away from home two weeks at a time. Kept in the school by the RSM even when not rostered for a class for days. Wear and tear on car.I could go on and on.
    The only reward is a 667B and a point.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  16. Thanks Truck Driver thanked for this post
    Likes na grohmití, Rhodes, TangoSierra, ODIN liked this post
  17. #12
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    19,785
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    100% Bang on.Even the existing officers are saying it.The DF is going to s**t because we have kids instructing Kids with no experience behind them.


    Correct.The posting is for 12 Months so it is widely unpopular with some lads/lasses with young families being detailed because "it's an honour" to Instruct up there.No SIC allowance,unlike the permanent staff,but it's an Honour



    Bollocks.That guy is either naive or stupid. €25 a week Instructor allowance. Duties on the weekends,so away from home two weeks at a time. Kept in the school by the RSM even when not rostered for a class for days. Wear and tear on car.I could go on and on.
    The only reward is a 667B and a point.
    Can only go on what I was told he said it was happier (and had a shorter commute (both are long distance) than in the Bn

  18. #13
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,129
    Post Thanks / Like
    fk sake ? 25 a week extra - is that really all it is ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  19. #14
    BQMS
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    562
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    fk sake ? 25 a week extra - is that really all it is ?
    For attached instructors, yes.

  20. #15
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,129
    Post Thanks / Like
    whaaat but thats shite
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  21. #16
    Lt General apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    4,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    whaaat but thats shite
    Yup.100% shit.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  22. #17
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,140
    Post Thanks / Like
    The DF is going to s**t because we have kids instructing Kids with no experience behind them
    .

    Dunno about that, Wifes cousin is gone in as a cadet with three years 12bn behind him..hardly a red arse, good switihed on youngfella. Chances are from 108 cadets some will have made the jump from the ranks.
    Just visiting

  23. Likes Spark23, Truck Driver liked this post
  24. #18
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,347
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    .

    Dunno about that, Wifes cousin is gone in as a cadet with three years 12bn behind him..hardly a red arse, good switihed on youngfella. Chances are from 108 cadets some will have made the jump from the ranks.
    Some doing so because it was the only way to remain in the DF and still be able to afford to live.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  25. Thanks hptmurphy thanked for this post
  26. #19
    Lt General apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    4,679
    Post Thanks / Like
    They are in the minority.Trust me.
    We have people promoted on a friday and sent to the College on a monday to instruct.In any other Army in the world there is no way that would be allowed.
    You need to have walked the walk to talk the talk.
    Utter madness.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  27. Thanks hptmurphy thanked for this post
  28. #20
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,140
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    They are in the minority.Trust me.
    We have people promoted on a friday and sent to the College on a monday to instruct.In any other Army in the world there is no way that would be allowed.
    You need to have walked the walk to talk the talk.
    Utter madness.
    Its no way unique in the army, believe me, I've seen a nurse qualified two days left in charge of a facility because he was the only one available and because he received his certification 24hrs before his colleague.

    So should secondment to training establishments be mandatory rather that voluntary to deal with the shortage of suitably qualified people?

    is the tail wagging the dog?
    Just visiting

  29. #21
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    dublin
    Posts
    1,272
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mandatory secondments might solve the problem regarding shortage of suitably qualified personnel but would only further increase shortages in Bn's etc.

    Bigger issue is systemic under staffing of the DF as a whole and retention. Mandatory secondments may also be the final push that fed up senior NCO's might need to make the decision to leave also, further reducing experienced numbers.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqués are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  30. Thanks apod thanked for this post
    Likes Truck Driver liked this post
  31. #22
    Sergeant
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    76
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    They are in the minority.Trust me.
    We have people promoted on a friday and sent to the College on a monday to instruct.In any other Army in the world there is no way that would be allowed.
    You need to have walked the walk to talk the talk.
    Utter madness.
    Much the same across the water my man, much the same.

  32. Likes morpheus, apod liked this post
  33. #23
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,140
    Post Thanks / Like
    Mandatory secondments may also be the final push that fed up senior NCO's might need to make the decision to leave also, further reducing experienced numbers.
    But if that creates career vacancies for people not so fed up is that actually a bad thing?

    Poor morale will cause more problems than lack of experience, experience can be gained but, if people lose interest how do you motivate people to do the best at their work and gain the experience?

    Restoration of pay would go along way towards re establishing some of the morale. But as within the rest of the public sector the changes have been so cutting that elements of the morale and the knowledge that should things take a turn for the worst we will always be in the firing line, irreparable damage has been done.
    Just visiting

  34. Likes DeV liked this post
  35. #24
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Here And There...
    Posts
    10,172
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    But if that creates career vacancies for people not so fed up is that actually a bad thing?

    Poor morale will cause more problems than lack of experience, experience can be gained but, if people lose interest how do you motivate people to do the best at their work and gain the experience?

    Restoration of pay would go along way towards re establishing some of the morale. But as within the rest of the public sector the changes have been so cutting that elements of the morale and the knowledge that should things take a turn for the worst we will always be in the firing line, irreparable damage has been done.
    Would argue that a better balance needs to be struck between maintaining force experience and freeing up vacancies for career progression for those coming from behind
    Don't envy those who have to figure out how, mind you...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  36. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •