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  1. #1
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    Experience in RDF vs PDF when applying for job in Close Protection

    Hi All,

    I work as a commercial security officer. Im doing my CP (close protection) course abroad with fire arms next month and i also applied for Reserve Defence Forces.


    In RDF i will have to complete 2 weeks of full military training every year plus other duties number of times per month.


    Today,Permanent Defence Forces started their recruitment campaign. I always had interest in army and i believe would fit very well in there and also this is my last bell,as im 24 y/o and max age to join is 25.


    The thing is im happy enough with my current job and im earning a good bit more than freshly recruited soldier. Normally it would not matter to me,but i have to think about my family.


    My plan was to complete CP course and spend number of years in RDF,gain experience and training necessary to find decent job as a CPO,while working as security.


    Question is: When applying for a CPO Jobs,does it make several difference if i have 5 years PDF experience or 5 years in RDF?

    Whats your opinion? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    My opinion...for what its worth from someone in another army...is that you will struggle to break into CP land unless you've done armed CP work either in the military or in the police.

    Mate of mine...ex police...Spunked all his resettlement money on a CP course about seven years ago. He never got hired because he was never CP.

    Forget about it for now...join the Army...look at it again a few years down the line would be my advice.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

  3. #3
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    I don't think service in the RDF will count for much to anyone hiring for the CP role.

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  5. #4
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Most of the people doing CP work based in Ireland(contracts at home and abroad) are ex military/Garda. esp former ARW. Bit of a closed shop.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  7. #5
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    Times are changing constantly,especially for CP Operatives in UK,France,Germany,Spain and the reason is well known-no need to explain. There is plenty of work and will be much more i believe. Its very difficult to get into CP loop,but once youre in,your wheel is spinning. I have security experience,im on my way to gain military experience ( fitness test for RDF in Galway 7th OCT) and i believe,after completing CP course+military training i will eventually get into the loop. I know i have what it takes and i know i can and will do it.

    Let me quote a member of CP forum regarding this topic who is in the game:

    Depends on the CP role and the whim of the client.
    Some roles need Military background (hostile for example) so the better your army background the better the chance of getting it.

    Some corporate stuff you're protecting a guy who has strong views on what he wants, and that's an ex-Mil guy, regardless of whether that's what he needs, it's what he wants and he's paying, and typically they won't really be bothered if you're reserve or not, if you tick the box then you make it past the first round, then it's down to what else you offer and if he likes you.

    Some corporate stuff doesn't need Mil background at all, I don't have one and I'm doing quite well
    I've also known clients (often women) who positively refuse to have ex Mil looking after them - they feel (rightly or wrongly) that short hair, tats down their arms, 'military temperament' and language are not what they need in their busy polished life, so go for talented civvies and ex-plod.

    Best advice is go with what you want right now, and enjoy whatever you do. You might hate CP when you try it (it's not for everyone) so spending a few years doing something you don't like in order to get a job you end up hating is just daft.

  8. #6
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    I did shitty domestic security work for an ex-forces-only company in 2015, and most of the guys I worked with were lads who were coming home from the middle east to do their 90 days in the UK for tax purposes. Even they, boys who were still working in the gen-up CP role in Iraq, Afghan, Egypt couldn't get CP work in the UK or Ireland.

    Think about that. Ex military, mostly ex-RM, operational tours under their belt, actively employed as CP.... but nothing for them back home.

    Don't do it. Don't let these shysters sell you a qualification for nothing. The furthest you'll go is manning doors on any old nightclub. They've sold you the idea that once you've broken in, you'll be squared away, but it's not the case at all.

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  10. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat View Post
    Times are changing constantly,especially for CP Operatives in UK,France,Germany,Spain and the reason is well known-no need to explain. There is plenty of work and will be much more i believe. Its very difficult to get into CP loop,but once youre in,your wheel is spinning. I have security experience,im on my way to gain military experience ( fitness test for RDF in Galway 7th OCT) and i believe,after completing CP course+military training i will eventually get into the loop. I know i have what it takes and i know i can and will do it.
    you are deluded.

    you are wrong.

    the overwhelming majority of CP courses are an efficient way of chanelling money from idiots. given your complete lack of experience - guarding bananas at Tesco, or hoofing drunks out of toilets in clubs does not count as experience - you will not get a job in CP or armed security work anywhere regardless of what courses you've put on your credit card.

    joining the RDF does not count as military experience in the security industry - you may as well put Airsoft in your CV. by the way, well done for telling the recruiting team that you're only there for some walting - you've put your age, job, and when and where you're doing a fitness test. quite how difficult do you think they'll find it to work out which muppet you are?


    the going rate for the lowest end of the market - and you really, really don't want to work at the lowest end of the market - is four years regular service, an overseas tour and an €8000 'course'. with that you'll be working for a total cowboy, with total numpties, and for €400 a week. you won't be armed, you'll be more roadie than CP, and you'll be expected to do whatever is asked of you regardless of how illegal. if your boss doesn't like you you'll be sacked with no notice and how you get home is your problem - you will, as with all jobs with cowboys, find actually getting paid something of a lottery.

    give your heard a shake, put your mums money away, and go to college.

  11. #8
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
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    If only his excellency The Baron Sir Shortt of CastleShortt, MBEE, ABE saw this thread, his little eyes would be all a twinkle!!

  12. #9
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    I'd love to know what happened to him, there's been little to nothing from him for years. He must really rue the rise of social media, it makes it so much easier to spot the walts these days.

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  14. #10
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    If you go into the DF, get a trade. Just being a gun bunny leads you nowhere.

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  16. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    If you go into the DF, get a trade. Just being a gun bunny leads you nowhere.
    Plenty of taxi drivers and pub doormen are ex gun bunnys.....
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  18. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    you are deluded.

    you are wrong.

    the overwhelming majority of CP courses are an efficient way of chanelling money from idiots. given your complete lack of experience - guarding bananas at Tesco, or hoofing drunks out of toilets in clubs does not count as experience - you will not get a job in CP or armed security work anywhere regardless of what courses you've put on your credit card.

    joining the RDF does not count as military experience in the security industry - you may as well put Airsoft in your CV. by the way, well done for telling the recruiting team that you're only there for some walting - you've put your age, job, and when and where you're doing a fitness test. quite how difficult do you think they'll find it to work out which muppet you are?


    the going rate for the lowest end of the market - and you really, really don't want to work at the lowest end of the market - is four years regular service, an overseas tour and an €8000 'course'. with that you'll be working for a total cowboy, with total numpties, and for €400 a week. you won't be armed, you'll be more roadie than CP, and you'll be expected to do whatever is asked of you regardless of how illegal. if your boss doesn't like you you'll be sacked with no notice and how you get home is your problem - you will, as with all jobs with cowboys, find actually getting paid something of a lottery.

    give your heard a shake, put your mums money away, and go to college.



    Judging by what you wrote,you must have had very rough experience.
    Minimum wage in security industry in 2017 is €11.05 ph so for guarding bananas like you mention,you're getting €442 per week,with overtime €500+ and you're telling me that after 4 years service,overseas tour and completing €8000 worth course you get €400 per week? I wouldnt think so,we are not in 70s anymore. Sorry but that does not sound convincing to me. If thats what you were getting,i understand your attitude to this industry.

    Recruiting team wont have to figure out anything,because i will clearly state my reasons for joining and 'some waiting' is definitely not one of them.

    Retail security and commercial security are two different markets,mister.

    I am aware it is very difficult to get into CP,but it does not mean its impossible. Im networking for number of months,talking to people,following forums/websites/news/cp job adverts and i disagree with you. Your information is out of date.

    In UK,even a lad in his 30,finance administrator,NO security/military/police experience whatsoever. After completing CP course with well known training provider Ronin,got a job as a CPO.

    Every person has different ambitions,dreams,priorities and resources. Let it be 3,5 or 10 years,but i know that constant action and focus on my goal will result in achieving it. Dont measure everybody by your own ruler.

    Either way,thanks for your opinion ~Ropebag. Appreciate it.

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  20. #13
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Mat , if and when you get to be interviewed to join the PDF be sure to tell them all about your plan the use them as springboard into the CP industry . I am sure they have a team of instructors awaiting your arrival to guide you on your way . That of course if they don't tell you to take a flying you know what well before then .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  22. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat View Post
    In UK,even a lad in his 30,finance administrator,NO security/military/police experience whatsoever. After completing CP course with well known training provider Ronin,got a job as a CPO.

    Every person has different ambitions,dreams,priorities and resources. Let it be 3,5 or 10 years,but i know that constant action and focus on my goal will result in achieving it. Dont measure everybody by your own ruler.
    Right that's it, you are a wind up. There's no way there's a serious bloke behind these posts.

    edit: is this the X-factor "dream big you can do it" generation coming to the fore?

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  24. #15
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    OP RDF are civilians, the chances of a civilian getting into CP gigs even with thousands spent on civilian courses in the US/Israel are pretty ****ing low. When Iraq was covered in PMCs after the invasion you could have maybe got a job if you trained with a legit provider, but now why the **** would they hire someone with zero experience when there's truckloads of exers to hire ahead of you?
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  26. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat View Post
    Sorry but that does not sound convincing to me. If thats what you were getting,i understand your attitude to this industry.
    That figure of £400 a week is more like ropebags mess bill.

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  28. #17
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    I have worked with lads like you, lads with ambition who believed all the hype that these training providers sell, but from exprience I believe you are setting yourself up for a fall, if your lucky you might get a gig securing a movie set or premiere in the hope you get spotted for a better gig, but I doubt it.
    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation’s bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

  29. #18
    CQMS Tempest's Avatar
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    A long time ago now I worked in comms/support to a very specific civilian/Garda CP operation. My civvy workmates did earn extra allowances for their placement and for additional training courses (driving/UAC etc), but spent most of their time bored out of their skulls sitting in a converted garage or in a car, or putting up with the petulances of their 'VIP' subjects. The ones who thought it would be exciting couldn't wait to get out, the ones who relied on the little extras for their mortgage felt they were stuck with it. Low-level CP work in my experience is drudgery of the highest order.

    So, as others have advised, have a serious re-think. To think you'll have a glamorous, well paid, exciting life with the level of qualification you will have is pure Walter Mitty stuff.

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  31. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    A long time ago now I worked in comms/support to a very specific civilian/Garda CP operation. My civvy workmates did earn extra allowances for their placement and for additional training courses (driving/UAC etc), but spent most of their time bored out of their skulls sitting in a converted garage or in a car, or putting up with the petulances of their 'VIP' subjects. The ones who thought it would be exciting couldn't wait to get out, the ones who relied on the little extras for their mortgage felt they were stuck with it. Low-level CP work in my experience is drudgery of the highest order.

    So, as others have advised, have a serious re-think. To think you'll have a glamorous, well paid, exciting life with the level of qualification you will have is pure Walter Mitty stuff.
    I know where you coming from. I work in security industry for number of years and i do know what boredom is. I dont expect that after completing my course i'll have work all over the shop,neither i dont expect to be famous,protect president,earn six figure a motnh etc. For me its just a progress in my career. I'll learn new skills,get qualifications and its already advantage to me. I dont really care about money as long as i can provide decent life for my family. What i care about is doing what i enjoy and im good at. Doesn't have to be protecting Taoiseach,i'd be happy with any progression in my career. Even tho i will complete Cp course and will never work as a CP,for me its a milestone and step forward.I have thought about joining RDF for a good while and now that i have chance i did it. I dont see it as 'some waiting' or 'springboard'. I have interest in carrying out duty as long as i can,because i treat it as a passion/hobby and not of extortion.

  32. #20
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    All the london prisons have at least close protection guy who took the wrap for his employer, its part of the job description, so you might end up doing time if some saudi prince knocks over some old lady with his super car. .

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  34. #21
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    If you want to provide for your family, you won't do it by paying £8000 to learn CP. Keep that money for the house deposit / rainy day / emergency fund. If money doesn't bother you, join the Gardai or PDF, get the experience there and hopefully get some CP quals through them. There's no standard 'career' progression in CP, you simply go from job to job - if there are any - and hopefully get to demand more money as your experience increases.

    Anyway, I'm done lecturing you. Best of luck, hope it works out.

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