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  1. #1
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    Any news on the budget!

    I heard Minister Donahue saying there was an increase in funding for defence but no mention of numbers. Anyone able to provide clarity?

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Extra €7m in Current Expenditure (which broadly covers pay & pension)
    Extra €3m in Capital Expenditure (equipment, buildings, capital maintenance and ICT)

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The full breakdown by subhead should be available later today

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    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    F****** joke
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Extra €7m in Current Expenditure (which broadly covers pay & pension)
    Extra €3m in Capital Expenditure (equipment, buildings, capital maintenance and ICT)

    So Feck all in reality.

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  8. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Extra €7m in Current Expenditure (which broadly covers pay & pension)
    Extra €3m in Capital Expenditure (equipment, buildings, capital maintenance and ICT)
    Jaysus that's paltry! How will Naval and Aer Corps fleet replacement progress with no budget allocation? And that's before "crazy" stuff like Scorpion replacement, more helicopters and anything else that's badly needed gets tackled.

    Even forgetting about Capital expenditure for a while the least I would have expected would have been a huge staff retention package across all three branches to address the current brain drain and staff shortages.

    Very dissapointing

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  10. #7
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    The total current expenditure allocated for 2018 and projected to 2020 is €869 million, I imagine that is a figure meant to be adjusted for inflation/budget figure and, politics being what they are for a minority government, we can only take 2018 as certain. So % spend of budget remains unchanged at 1.4% (of the budget, not of GDP).
    Capital expenditure on top of that is allocated as €77 million for 2018, €106 million in 2019 and €113 million in 2020.

    It seems that they are hedging that the Defence Forces can just muddle through until debt reduction gives financial space?
    The question is what kind of Defence Forces will remain by the time a future government thinks it can afford to raise the Defence budget to at least 1% of GDP.

    Whatever happens, I suspect the Defence Forces need not bother looking for any significant change until 2021 or after. Brexit and the gods of economy permitting.
    Last edited by expat01; 10th October 2017 at 17:40.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Re...5?OpenDocument

    Process for CASA replacement and MRV (Eithne replacement) to commence in 2018

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  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/Re...5?OpenDocument

    Process for CASA replacement and MRV (Eithne replacement) to commence in 2018
    Any date on that ?

  14. #10
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    thumbsuck: no reason a CASA replacement won't be finalised in 2018, but I imagine the MRV will be signed off in 2019.
    Question: does the 68 million for OPV4 come out of 2018 or is it already spent?

  15. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by expat01 View Post
    thumbsuck: no reason a CASA replacement won't be finalised in 2018, but I imagine the MRV will be signed off in 2019.
    Question: does the 68 million for OPV4 come out of 2018 or is it already spent?
    It was paid for in stages.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrier View Post
    Any date on that ?
    id imagine around 2020

  17. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    id imagine around 2020
    Do you mean the decision on what gets picked or when the start of the build? If the process starts in 2018, how soon before we'd start seeing some info on proposed specs?

  18. #14
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    Very soon. The process in reality started long ago.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  20. #15
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Do you mean the decision on what gets picked or when the start of the build? If the process starts in 2018, how soon before we'd start seeing some info on proposed specs?
    It will probably go to tender 2019 I'd say

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  22. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    id imagine around 2020
    Sorry. I meant the press release. Was it today ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by terrier View Post
    Sorry. I meant the press release. Was it today ?
    Given it had the Budget details I'd go with yes.

  24. #18
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terrier View Post
    Sorry. I meant the press release. Was it today ?
    yes
    M

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  26. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Already announced additional €98m in capital expenditure over the next 4 years

    http://budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2018/Do...tal%20Plan.pdf

    MOWAG MLU
    NS fleet replacement programme
    Mid lift refit of Niamh & Roisin
    Cessna replacements
    CASA replacements
    Barracks infrastructure
    Additional force protection

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  28. #20
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    how on earth is that supposed to buy all of the above?

  29. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    how on earth is that supposed to buy all of the above?
    Well aren't the MOWAG MLU and Cessna replacements already in the pipeline? But yeah still don't see how the MRV fits into the budget.

  30. #22
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graylion View Post
    how on earth is that supposed to buy all of the above?
    It's an additional allocation!

    It isn't €98m

    In 2017, the capital estimates for the Defence Vote was €74m.

    This is a 4 year increase in capital expenditure, therefore it is (€74m x 4) + €98m = €394m over 4 years

    AFAIK some of the MOWAG MLUs have already taken place so some of that was probably already came out of 2017 estimates, same probably for the Cessna replacements. The fleet replacement programme sees each vessel paid for over 3+ years.

    Force protection is possibly the odd armoured truck, JCB etc purchased here and there
    Last edited by DeV; 11th October 2017 at 11:56.

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  32. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post

    Force protection is possibly the odd armoured truck, JCB etc purchased here and there
    I would have been hoping that Extra Force Protection might refer to an AML90/Scorpion replacement. Has there been any concrete developments in getting a replacement 'Big gun on wheels/tracks' ?

  33. #24
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    I would have been hoping that Extra Force Protection might refer to an AML90/Scorpion replacement. Has there been any concrete developments in getting a replacement 'Big gun on wheels/tracks' ?
    "Armoured logistics vehicles for overseas missions are a further force protection requirement and a small number of these will be procured." WP 2015

  34. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    So Feck all in reality.
    I agree. That would hardly cover pay increases alone, would it?
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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