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Thread: DF Pay Delays

  1. #1
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    DF Pay Delays

    In a statement it said that payrolls are prepared in advance by the department’s payroll provider and therefore there is a lead in time before recruits are placed on the payroll.

    sigh

    Since we're all moving to the new system
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Was there delays like this before shared services?

    Are other State bodies seeing the same?

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    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Nope

    Payroll in the HSE is generated internally, pay roll details and requirements are submitted prior to new enlistments starting and people are paid 11 days in arrears,

    So its bollocks! No excuse!
    Time for another break I think......

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    In the 1960s (50 years ago) the Command Cashier issued a supplementary cheque to be cashed by the Pay Officer to cover the pay of recruits who had been attested that week - right up to the day before! So that's progress for you.

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    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Also worth noting that at certain times of the year payroll returns are request in advance to line management and people are paid on the system some weeks in advance with adjustment memos sent fortnightly to adjust for leave or shift changes.

    If the HSE can pay 120,000 people on time as required why the hell can't the DF.

    If a guy is overseas for 6 weeks... its not as if he is going to take a day off.... they know where he is and what he is doing, there is no need for a weekly return, it can be planned in advance.

    Whoever is providing payroll services to the DF is a disgrace.
    Time for another break I think......

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Nope

    Payroll in the HSE is generated internally, pay roll details and requirements are submitted prior to new enlistments starting and people are paid 11 days in arrears,

    So its bollocks! No excuse!
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Also worth noting that at certain times of the year payroll returns are request in advance to line management and people are paid on the system some weeks in advance with adjustment memos sent fortnightly to adjust for leave or shift changes.

    If the HSE can pay 120,000 people on time as required why the hell can't the DF.

    If a guy is overseas for 6 weeks... its not as if he is going to take a day off.... they know where he is and what he is doing, there is no need for a weekly return, it can be planned in advance.

    Whoever is providing payroll services to the DF is a disgrace.
    Well we all know the RDF pay is set up to fail with the admin required


    PDF wise I’m wondering has it got worse since Renmore became a shared services centre
    http://pssc.gov.ie/about-pssc/



    I had cause to speak to 2 civil servants in Renmore in part of accounts last year and both were extremely helpful

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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Most of us long haulers remember Cash-in-Hand from the pay officer. This system worked perfectly and to this day I cannot fathom one good reason for the change

    (BTW I work as a very senior IT Architect and still can't see a good reason for the change )
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  10. #8
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    Are the DF ready for 2019?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  11. #9
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Most of us long haulers remember Cash-in-Hand from the pay officer. This system worked perfectly and to this day I cannot fathom one good reason for the change

    (BTW I work as a very senior IT Architect and still can't see a good reason for the change )
    From the PDF point of view

    Cost......Security......Electronic transfer of funds reduced man hours required to process pay

    From the RDF perspective, it was supposed to be streamlined along the PDF lines again to reduce administration.

    The fact that a government department can not pay its employees on time is actually a national disgrace and heads should roll.
    Time for another break I think......

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    From the PDF point of view

    Cost......Security......Electronic transfer of funds reduced man hours required to process pay

    From the RDF perspective, it was supposed to be streamlined along the PDF lines again to reduce administration.

    The fact that a government department can not pay its employees on time is actually a national disgrace and heads should roll.
    And easier to prevent fraud, “breakages”, etc


    +1


    There’s a policy on prompt payment of accounts (ie invoices) but not wages
    Last edited by DeV; 24th November 2017 at 19:56.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    Are the DF ready for 2019?
    ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ??
    PAYE Modernisation. https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-...ion/index.aspx
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  17. #13
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Lads can ye all STFU about something ye know nothing about.
    "Heads should roll".listen to yourselves.You will want pitchforks and torches next.
    Yes.The new system is ****ed up but it is mostly teething problems.
    Here is the gen.
    Payroll in the DF is still calculated internally at unit level.It is then sent to PSSC. Formally it was sent to Colaiste. There are four (AFAIK) PSSC centres around the country.Each one deals with certain Government Dept's.The DF migrated over to this as part of the LRA terms as the Gov wanted to reduce payroll staff.
    The snag is when we moved over only some of the staff from Colaiste moved to PSSC. So since last April when the enlisted were first to move they have been playing catchup as the corporate knowledge isn't there with some of the other staff.
    DF pay is very complex.This is down to the amount of different allowances and pension schemes.The officer corps are experiencing difficulties now as they only recently moved over.

    The bugs are ironing themselves out and yes a system need to be put in place to cover new recruits.Proposals have been put forward but not signed off on yet.
    When you are in the system and it is running properly it is great though. I get paid on a Wednesday.Before I would not see a payslip until the day before. Now I can log on from a thursday and see my next weeks payslip. Right now coming into the Christmas period I can see two weeks ahead.

    Also to compare the DF to the HSE is like comparing apples and oranges.The HSE is a massive bureaucracy with layers of Admins( they don't need) to deal with matters like pay.We don't have that luxury and have to make do with what has been foisted upon us.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  19. #14
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Lads can ye all STFU about something ye know nothing about.
    "Heads should roll".listen to yourselves.You will want pitchforks and torches next.
    I'm sorry - there are several here who know a lot about it. Just like RDF Pay it should never ever have gotten to this stage. There are many problems but pay issues should be shouted from the rooftops
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  21. #15
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    I'm sorry - there are several here who know a lot about it. Just like RDF Pay it should never ever have gotten to this stage. There are many problems but pay issues should be shouted from the rooftops
    Really? Who?
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    me, for example. PSSC and so on. Anybody who deals with pay on a day to day basis - i.e. all of us. This is something that we really should actually be talking about.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  23. #17
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    me, for example. PSSC and so on. Anybody who deals with pay on a day to day basis - i.e. all of us. This is something that we really should actually be talking about.
    Are you PSSC staff?? Do you deal with PDF pay? Did you work for Colaiste?
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Lads can ye all STFU about something ye know nothing about.
    s.
    Great inclusive attitude to the discussion there

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  26. #19
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Lads can ye all STFU about something ye know nothing about.
    "Heads should roll".listen to yourselves
    Also to compare the DF to the HSE is like comparing apples and oranges.The HSE is a massive bureaucracy with layers of Admins( they don't need) to deal with matters like pay.We don't have that luxury and have to make do with what has been foisted upon us.
    Now theres a statement where someone is talking about something they know absolutely nothing about!

    There are no layers of bureaucracy, it takes two people, me who inputs the hours and the lady in payroll responsible for my pay group.E

    Each hospital in the paygroup is assigned one person which covers the whole of the south east support services out side of mental health services, which actually exceeds the whole of the defence forces.

    So one person in an office can process the pay for 500 people.......once the ground work has been done by the department managers...

    Its takes me one day per week to enter my payroll......the rest of the time spent rostering and overseeing the department

    I am responsible for the pay roll of the department I run,..in the HSE.. another branch of the public service.. just like the army,

    I ensure the returns are right, covering shift work and allowances leave , pay etc, It is then signed off by my line manager and then goes to one person in the pay group who then presents it for payment, all supports services deal with the same pay group!

    Before I would not see a payslip until the day before. Now I can log on from a thursday and see my next weeks payslip.
    Only took the army five years to catch up with the rest of the public service then, easy enough when you work flat weeks with occasional duties, try it with rotating rosters,premium payments, allowances, and various types of leave. Army payroll should be so straight forward given how little the parameters change, so really this reduces the reasons for fcuk ups. I wonder where the inefficency and bureaucracy really is...

    I also have to make sure contracts are renewed and increments are paid when they should be.

    If its not right it comes back to me ! If its not right with the right signatures .. we don't get paid...nine years in the job and my guys have got paid as they should.. every due date!

    So I know exactly how payroll works and what it takes to get it right.... and I am audited by the office of the CTAG annually to make sure it is right!

    OK it may not be that system the DF use but the principles are the same.

    Take it from one who knows, you get the pay roll wrong in civvy street you face a world of shit. Nothing like it to focuses the mind when you get it wrong. If there are enough checks and balances in place , major fcuk ups can be avoided.

    Not paying people is a a cardinal sin.. it also causes people lot of problems and is inexcusable..especially new entrants At a time when pay is so poor the last things people need to worry about is if they are going to get paid at all!

    Yeah I think I know what I'm talking about.
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 26th November 2017 at 21:18.
    Time for another break I think......

  27. #20
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Now theres a statement where someone is talking about something they know absolutely nothing about!

    There are no layers of bureaucracy, it takes two people, me who inputs the hours and the lady in payroll responsible for my pay group.E

    Each hospital in the paygroup is assigned one person which covers the whole of the south east support services out side of mental health services, which actually exceeds the whole of the defence forces.

    So one person in an office can process the pay for 500 people.......once the ground work has been done by the department managers...

    Its takes me one day per week to enter my payroll......the rest of the time spent rostering and overseeing the department

    I am responsible for the pay roll of the department I run,..in the HSE.. another branch of the public service.. just like the army,

    I ensure the returns are right, covering shift work and allowances leave , pay etc, It is then signed off by my line manager and then goes to one person in the pay group who then presents it for payment, all supports services deal with the same pay group!



    Only took the army five years to catch up with the rest of the public service then, easy enough when you work flat weeks with occasional duties, try it with rotating rosters,premium payments, allowances, and various types of leave. Army payroll should be so straight forward given how little the parameters change, so really this reduces the reasons for fcuk ups. I wonder where the inefficency and bureaucracy really is...

    I also have to make sure contracts are renewed and increments are paid when they should be.

    If its not right it comes back to me ! If its not right with the right signatures .. we don't get paid...nine years in the job and my guys have got paid as they should.. every due date!

    So I know exactly how payroll works and what it takes to get it right.... and I am audited by the office of the CTAG annually to make sure it is right!

    OK it may not be that system the DF use but the principles are the same.

    Take it from one who knows, you get the pay roll wrong in civvy street you face a world of shit. Nothing like it to focuses the mind when you get it wrong. If there are enough checks and balances in place , major fcuk ups can be avoided.

    Not paying people is a a cardinal sin.. it also causes people lot of problems and is inexcusable..especially new entrants At a time when pay is so poor the last things people need to worry about is if they are going to get paid at all!

    Yeah I think I know what I'm talking about.
    Buddy you know the square root of sweet **** all about DF pay. You may know everything there is to know about the bottomless pit for taxpayers money that is the HSE but unless you have worked in DF pay section then No.You don't know. So how about instead of pontificating on an internet forum about another department of which you know very little about you worry about your own area first.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  29. #21
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Great inclusive attitude to the discussion there
    This isn't a discussion.It is an ill informed finger pointing session.
    Myself and the other PDF lads on here don't pretend to know the minute details of RDF issues so why do some people here seem to think they are qualified to pass judgement on issues they only have second hand anecdotal evidence about??
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  31. #22
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    I believe my own government department has a pay system far more complex than that of the DF. Like the DF we are strewn throughout the state, we are paid via PSSC. I have a number of former colleagues who work with them. However our pay run is still sent from our own department payroll branch, PSSC issue the payslips a week in advance and we are paid from a seperate government department again.
    There are numerous grades within the department, and these all have their own rates of pay which varies whether they were recruited before or after certain dates, and is also based on their years of service.
    Add to this the complication that certain posts earn additional allowances, of which there are many. You could be doing a job which to the outsider looks the same as your colleague elsewhere in the state, but earning a completely different amount, due to your location or when you commenced working for the department.
    Some wear a uniform. Some get more money because they must wear a uniform. Some get more money because they have to drive. Some get subsistence to drive their own car, others have a state car to drive, but they are still entitled to a different form of subsistence for doing so.
    We have to travel for training, frequently overseas. Never at our own expense. Sometimes we get compensated before, other time its after. SOme of us if working overseas have their accomodation provided. Some of us when working at home have accomodation provided. Some we get paid for, some we have to pay for.
    Every year we take on temporary workers for the summer months, rarely for more than 8 weeks.
    Everything goes through PSSC.
    Everything.
    It must all be approved by our own payroll branch first.

    Others are more complicated. The CSO for example in addition to most of the above, also have a large body of casual workers who often may only work for one day a month. Some may only work once every four years, some remain with them for the long term, many leave after one project.

    How is the defence forces more complicated?
    How come the above can manage to pay everyone their wages on time, even if sometimes you may get your new allowance a few weeks late, but you'll get it, and if you are out of pocket there is a mechanism in place to have pay advanced until everything is sorted out.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  33. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Buddy you know the square root of sweet **** all about DF pay. You may know everything there is to know about the bottomless pit for taxpayers money that is the HSE but unless you have worked in DF pay section then No.You don't know. So how about instead of pontificating on an internet forum about another department of which you know very little about you worry about your own area first.
    What an arrogant response. If another user had posted this ignorant reply, you'd be all over it with the bold red text.
    REEL your neck in.
    I have learnt not to bother reporting MOD posts. Hopefully you'll get the message. Attack the post not the poster.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  35. #24
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    How is the defence forces more complicated?
    How come the above can manage to pay everyone their wages on time, even if sometimes you may get your new allowance a few weeks late, but you'll get it, and if you are out of pocket there is a mechanism in place to have pay advanced until everything is sorted out.
    Can you show me where I said the DF was more complicated? I will save you the bother I didn't. What i said was that DF pay is very complex.And it is .Now you can choose to accept that or disbelieve it but unless you have to live within that system you cant possibly be able to pass an educated opinion 100%.
    I cannot claim to know anything about your Departments pay system as I don't WORK there.I would only be regurgitating second hand info. That is what I am having an issue with.People here who work in other departments or who get paid by the DF once or twice(more sometimes I know) a year passing comment about something they only have passing knowledge of.
    Even when I was a recruit there was a time lag before we got our first pay packet and we were on emergency tax for weeks BTW.This is nothing new.Shitty but nothing new. Recently i was paid for duties i did ages ago.Was I happy to get paid?Yes.Was I happy that PSSC know F.A about DF pay and how to pay it?No. The people that dealt with my pay before had years of experience doing DF pay.PSSC are on a steep learning curve.


    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    What an arrogant response. If another user had posted this ignorant reply, you'd be all over it with the bold red text.
    REEL your neck in.
    I have learnt not to bother reporting MOD posts. Hopefully you'll get the message. Attack the post not the poster.
    And Murphs post wan't arrogant?? The hell it wasn't.
    Having said that I posted in temper so in the interest of fairness I apologise for any offence caused, but I also think Murph is well able to defend himself thanks.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I had something else in mind ....but better off taken down
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 26th November 2017 at 22:11.
    Time for another break I think......

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