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  • #16
    me, for example. PSSC and so on. Anybody who deals with pay on a day to day basis - i.e. all of us. This is something that we really should actually be talking about.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by trellheim View Post
      me, for example. PSSC and so on. Anybody who deals with pay on a day to day basis - i.e. all of us. This is something that we really should actually be talking about.
      Are you PSSC staff?? Do you deal with PDF pay? Did you work for Colaiste?
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by apod View Post
        Lads can ye all STFU about something ye know nothing about.
        s.
        Great inclusive attitude to the discussion there

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        • #19
          Lads can ye all STFU about something ye know nothing about.
          "Heads should roll".listen to yourselves
          Also to compare the DF to the HSE is like comparing apples and oranges.The HSE is a massive bureaucracy with layers of Admins( they don't need) to deal with matters like pay.We don't have that luxury and have to make do with what has been foisted upon us.
          Now theres a statement where someone is talking about something they know absolutely nothing about!

          There are no layers of bureaucracy, it takes two people, me who inputs the hours and the lady in payroll responsible for my pay group.E

          Each hospital in the paygroup is assigned one person which covers the whole of the south east support services out side of mental health services, which actually exceeds the whole of the defence forces.

          So one person in an office can process the pay for 500 people.......once the ground work has been done by the department managers...

          Its takes me one day per week to enter my payroll......the rest of the time spent rostering and overseeing the department

          I am responsible for the pay roll of the department I run,..in the HSE.. another branch of the public service.. just like the army,

          I ensure the returns are right, covering shift work and allowances leave , pay etc, It is then signed off by my line manager and then goes to one person in the pay group who then presents it for payment, all supports services deal with the same pay group!

          Before I would not see a payslip until the day before. Now I can log on from a thursday and see my next weeks payslip.
          Only took the army five years to catch up with the rest of the public service then, easy enough when you work flat weeks with occasional duties, try it with rotating rosters,premium payments, allowances, and various types of leave. Army payroll should be so straight forward given how little the parameters change, so really this reduces the reasons for fcuk ups. I wonder where the inefficency and bureaucracy really is...

          I also have to make sure contracts are renewed and increments are paid when they should be.

          If its not right it comes back to me ! If its not right with the right signatures .. we don't get paid...nine years in the job and my guys have got paid as they should.. every due date!

          So I know exactly how payroll works and what it takes to get it right.... and I am audited by the office of the CTAG annually to make sure it is right!

          OK it may not be that system the DF use but the principles are the same.

          Take it from one who knows, you get the pay roll wrong in civvy street you face a world of shit. Nothing like it to focuses the mind when you get it wrong. If there are enough checks and balances in place , major fcuk ups can be avoided.

          Not paying people is a a cardinal sin.. it also causes people lot of problems and is inexcusable..especially new entrants At a time when pay is so poor the last things people need to worry about is if they are going to get paid at all!

          Yeah I think I know what I'm talking about.
          Last edited by hptmurphy; 26 November 2017, 22:18.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            Now theres a statement where someone is talking about something they know absolutely nothing about!

            There are no layers of bureaucracy, it takes two people, me who inputs the hours and the lady in payroll responsible for my pay group.E

            Each hospital in the paygroup is assigned one person which covers the whole of the south east support services out side of mental health services, which actually exceeds the whole of the defence forces.

            So one person in an office can process the pay for 500 people.......once the ground work has been done by the department managers...

            Its takes me one day per week to enter my payroll......the rest of the time spent rostering and overseeing the department

            I am responsible for the pay roll of the department I run,..in the HSE.. another branch of the public service.. just like the army,

            I ensure the returns are right, covering shift work and allowances leave , pay etc, It is then signed off by my line manager and then goes to one person in the pay group who then presents it for payment, all supports services deal with the same pay group!



            Only took the army five years to catch up with the rest of the public service then, easy enough when you work flat weeks with occasional duties, try it with rotating rosters,premium payments, allowances, and various types of leave. Army payroll should be so straight forward given how little the parameters change, so really this reduces the reasons for fcuk ups. I wonder where the inefficency and bureaucracy really is...

            I also have to make sure contracts are renewed and increments are paid when they should be.

            If its not right it comes back to me ! If its not right with the right signatures .. we don't get paid...nine years in the job and my guys have got paid as they should.. every due date!

            So I know exactly how payroll works and what it takes to get it right.... and I am audited by the office of the CTAG annually to make sure it is right!

            OK it may not be that system the DF use but the principles are the same.

            Take it from one who knows, you get the pay roll wrong in civvy street you face a world of shit. Nothing like it to focuses the mind when you get it wrong. If there are enough checks and balances in place , major fcuk ups can be avoided.

            Not paying people is a a cardinal sin.. it also causes people lot of problems and is inexcusable..especially new entrants At a time when pay is so poor the last things people need to worry about is if they are going to get paid at all!

            Yeah I think I know what I'm talking about.
            Buddy you know the square root of sweet **** all about DF pay. You may know everything there is to know about the bottomless pit for taxpayers money that is the HSE but unless you have worked in DF pay section then No.You don't know. So how about instead of pontificating on an internet forum about another department of which you know very little about you worry about your own area first.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
              Great inclusive attitude to the discussion there
              This isn't a discussion.It is an ill informed finger pointing session.
              Myself and the other PDF lads on here don't pretend to know the minute details of RDF issues so why do some people here seem to think they are qualified to pass judgement on issues they only have second hand anecdotal evidence about??
              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

              Comment


              • #22
                I believe my own government department has a pay system far more complex than that of the DF. Like the DF we are strewn throughout the state, we are paid via PSSC. I have a number of former colleagues who work with them. However our pay run is still sent from our own department payroll branch, PSSC issue the payslips a week in advance and we are paid from a seperate government department again.
                There are numerous grades within the department, and these all have their own rates of pay which varies whether they were recruited before or after certain dates, and is also based on their years of service.
                Add to this the complication that certain posts earn additional allowances, of which there are many. You could be doing a job which to the outsider looks the same as your colleague elsewhere in the state, but earning a completely different amount, due to your location or when you commenced working for the department.
                Some wear a uniform. Some get more money because they must wear a uniform. Some get more money because they have to drive. Some get subsistence to drive their own car, others have a state car to drive, but they are still entitled to a different form of subsistence for doing so.
                We have to travel for training, frequently overseas. Never at our own expense. Sometimes we get compensated before, other time its after. SOme of us if working overseas have their accomodation provided. Some of us when working at home have accomodation provided. Some we get paid for, some we have to pay for.
                Every year we take on temporary workers for the summer months, rarely for more than 8 weeks.
                Everything goes through PSSC.
                Everything.
                It must all be approved by our own payroll branch first.

                Others are more complicated. The CSO for example in addition to most of the above, also have a large body of casual workers who often may only work for one day a month. Some may only work once every four years, some remain with them for the long term, many leave after one project.

                How is the defence forces more complicated?
                How come the above can manage to pay everyone their wages on time, even if sometimes you may get your new allowance a few weeks late, but you'll get it, and if you are out of pocket there is a mechanism in place to have pay advanced until everything is sorted out.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by apod View Post
                  Buddy you know the square root of sweet **** all about DF pay. You may know everything there is to know about the bottomless pit for taxpayers money that is the HSE but unless you have worked in DF pay section then No.You don't know. So how about instead of pontificating on an internet forum about another department of which you know very little about you worry about your own area first.
                  What an arrogant response. If another user had posted this ignorant reply, you'd be all over it with the bold red text.
                  REEL your neck in.
                  I have learnt not to bother reporting MOD posts. Hopefully you'll get the message. Attack the post not the poster.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    How is the defence forces more complicated?
                    How come the above can manage to pay everyone their wages on time, even if sometimes you may get your new allowance a few weeks late, but you'll get it, and if you are out of pocket there is a mechanism in place to have pay advanced until everything is sorted out.
                    Can you show me where I said the DF was more complicated? I will save you the bother I didn't. What i said was that DF pay is very complex.And it is .Now you can choose to accept that or disbelieve it but unless you have to live within that system you cant possibly be able to pass an educated opinion 100%.
                    I cannot claim to know anything about your Departments pay system as I don't WORK there.I would only be regurgitating second hand info. That is what I am having an issue with.People here who work in other departments or who get paid by the DF once or twice(more sometimes I know) a year passing comment about something they only have passing knowledge of.
                    Even when I was a recruit there was a time lag before we got our first pay packet and we were on emergency tax for weeks BTW.This is nothing new.Shitty but nothing new. Recently i was paid for duties i did ages ago.Was I happy to get paid?Yes.Was I happy that PSSC know F.A about DF pay and how to pay it?No. The people that dealt with my pay before had years of experience doing DF pay.PSSC are on a steep learning curve.


                    Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                    What an arrogant response. If another user had posted this ignorant reply, you'd be all over it with the bold red text.
                    REEL your neck in.
                    I have learnt not to bother reporting MOD posts. Hopefully you'll get the message. Attack the post not the poster.
                    And Murphs post wan't arrogant?? The hell it wasn't.
                    Having said that I posted in temper so in the interest of fairness I apologise for any offence caused, but I also think Murph is well able to defend himself thanks.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I had something else in mind ....but better off taken down
                      Last edited by hptmurphy; 26 November 2017, 23:11.
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        DF pay is very complex.This is down to the amount of different allowances and pension schemes
                        This is exactly why the PPARs system proposed about 15 years ago in the HSE failed, because allowances payable cause too many variations to be automatically calculated , hence the need for manual input.

                        Public sector pay has always been at the low end being bulked out with allowances but the removal of these as we saw caused major headaches and as a result generation of Public Service pay will always be heavily dependant on human input, as opposed to actual automated payrolls that are all inclusive and are mostly generated by the employees input through clocking or logging in !

                        The HSE still rely on a system called SRS an 1980s DOS based programme for entry of basis to calculate pay, elements of it have been re written to ease reports but its old but works.

                        No different to any other branch of the public service and pension scheme deductions are based on software calculations not hard weekly inputs. Again calculation of Public service pensions payments is difficult during the actual employment phase as actual retirement dates are open ended and require calculation based on fluid multipliers.

                        I'm not getting into to anymore pissing matches and never intended to in the first place, but given what I know about Public Service payroll and the common denominators in it across the various agencies I fail to understand why people cannot be paid on time.....and I stand over the fact it is shameful.
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          PDF and RDF are both paid off S3 regulations. No I don't work in a PDF orderly room but the title of this thread is DF Pay not PDF Pay. As for how close I am you would

                          No-one is slagging off DF here - everyone else is fair game. PSSC had an enormous chance to get this right and lets be honest for some of the lowest if not the lowest paid lads on the strength its a fking disaster .

                          All I can say is welcome to RDF pay land lads
                          "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                          "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                          • #28
                            Can't speak for DF but Peoplepoint are nearly 4 months behind in processing - new entrants have priority and everyone else has to wait. Everything from increments to promotions are delayed. My promotion paperwork was delayed 14 weeks. PSSC resolved their side of it in a week and I got my pay back dated.
                            So, from my point of view the bottleneck is in peoplepoint. In saying that, I am not sure the DF uses Peoplepoint.

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                            • #29
                              @apod

                              Are PDF weekly pay submissions to DoD (not sure of the correct term), paper based (same as RDF) or is it some other system?

                              If they are I assume only DoD could change that as it would be under an AFC?

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by apod View Post
                                Really? Who?
                                And me.

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