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  1. #1
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    if you got the chance to modify a vehicle...

    Once upon a time, an Army Officer got the chance to modify a Comet to accept the 90mm recoilless rifle, which i thought was a rather interesting project. It came to naught but that wasn't his fault....If you had the chance to modify a Comet (or any other Irish Army vehicle) for a combat role, what would you do, bearing in mind that the budget would invariably be small and manpower and equipment and facilities would be tight......I would have converted the Comets to the equivalent of a 25-pdr Priest SPG, myself, but i'd imagine I'd have to beat off a tidal wave of Gunners first.
    regards
    GttC

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  3. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Wasn’t it suggested because the ammo was too dangerous / no longer available for the Comet’s main gun?

  4. #3
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    I'll most likely get slated for saying this but...

    I'd have replaced the 76mm guns on your Scorpions with 30mm cannon and dieselised them.

    About 20 years ago.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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  6. #4
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    Take the wheels, suspension, engine, transmission etc. off a Mowag and marry it to a lower profile hull and a 105 gun. Timoneytauro IIIH.

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  8. #5
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    I would have fitted rubber tracks to the Scorpions, ensured all had the diesel upgrade and then stick the Lockheed Warrior turret with the optional Javelin launchers fitted. Then to maintain commonality do the same to the MRVs and CRVs.
    Attachment 8493

  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Wasn’t it suggested because the ammo was too dangerous / no longer available for the Comet’s main gun?
    there was a suggestion that some of the fuses were decaying from old age and would prematurely explode, putting the tank crew at risk if there was a breech or barrel explosion.

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  11. #7
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Once upon a time, an Army Officer got the chance to modify a Comet to accept the 90mm recoilless rifle, which i thought was a rather interesting project. It came to naught but that wasn't his fault....If you had the chance to modify a Comet (or any other Irish Army vehicle) for a combat role, what would you do, bearing in mind that the budget would invariably be small and manpower and equipment and facilities would be tight......I would have converted the Comets to the equivalent of a 25-pdr Priest SPG, myself, but i'd imagine I'd have to beat off a tidal wave of Gunners first.
    regards
    GttC
    Always though the concept of putting a recoilless weapon into a slow moving vehicle with pitiful protection for the crew was a bit silly given with the signature of the weapon recoilless weapons tend to be a one shot wonder.

    The Ammo stocks were all but finished and shelf life was up on remaining stocks, someone wanted to maintain the Comets as a credible feature in the DF, given they had been obselete before they had been purchased.

    Conversions on the whole to my mid a moment of panic when you have run out of options with what you have and have no money to get what you should...

    Notable examples

    Dieselisation of existing petrol Landrovers.. disaster.. failed!

    Dieseliastaion of BedFord MK trucks...disaster.. failure !

    Mounting of 20mm from Vampires to Leyland Armoured Cars.. disaster.. failure...

    20mm turret on AML chassis.... weapon was sub optimal in calibre, AMLs despite diesel upgrades were too slow to operate with more modern vehicles and were deployed only once.

    I'd have replaced the 76mm guns on your Scorpions with 30mm cannon and dieselised them.

    About 20 years ago
    The only 30mm weapon suitable for vehicle mounting on the market was the Rarden......firing from a 3 round clip, once the fume extraction issue had been sorted out with the 76mm, there really wasn't an issue with the gun. Had the money spent on stupid spends like the 20mms on the AMLs been spent on diesel for the Scorpions it probably would have extended their lives.

    Best conversion..... when the Naval service put a tipping tail gate on the coal trailer used in base for delivering coal to the married quarters, saved the boys shovelling coal over the trailer sides.

    Probably the only decent conversion that ever worked for the entire DF!
    Just visiting

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  13. #8
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    What we could have done is something the Canadians did with their Piranha I based AVGP variant the Cougar. Just take the turret from the Scorpions and mount it onto a MOWAG.

  14. #9
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    What we could have done is something the Canadians did with their Piranha I based AVGP variant the Cougar. Just take the turret from the Scorpions and mount it onto a MOWAG.
    Except the turret was probably the biggest issue

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  16. #10
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    Different car in all respects. They were built on the hull of a Piranha 1 6x6.
    In canadian service it was widely ridiculed, and only used for training.
    The Piranha 3 in irish service does not need a 40 year old turret mounted on top of its hull.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  18. #11
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Modify a vehicle?
    I'd upgrade the PC9 with dumb bombs and or guided missile capability
    When the casa replacement is chosen, id strip and refurbish the existing casas for cargo with ability to fit a 50 cal and or 30mm out the side windows as a modular gunship variant when it suits, maybe look at fitting the Scorpions 76 in it too :D
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  20. #12
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    Would you put the scorpion 76 on the roof or the belly, where the radar used to be?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  22. #13
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    the 76mm shell is probably too light as a bombardment round unless you gave it terminal guidance of some kind.

  23. #14
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    Regarding recoilless rifles on vehicles, i thought it a waste of time on a proper gun tank but it's firing signature is hardly less than that of the original tank, besides. Plenty of users have got great utility out of recoilless rifles on small wheeled vehicles and even the US marines in Hue used the crazy but deadly Ontos to clear houses. Personally, I'd have converted the Comets to either a self propelled gun based on the 25 pdr or a Bofors AA mount like the M42 Duster.....the Rarden could be preloaded with four 3 round clips at a time, which could be topped up as the gun fired, so it could keep up a good rate of fire for a manually loaded gun, but belt fed was the way forward...the conversion of the Leylands with the Hispano from the Vampire failed for several reasons but excessive vibration upon firing at a fast enough rate to ensure safe and reliable reloading made it essentially unusable. the idea was sound but the execution flawed. Perhaps if an Oerlikon had been used instead? .....why did the diesel conversion of the Landys and Bedfords fail, when the manufacturer succeeded in due course? I have to say that I like conversions because it gets people thinking and it can improve inadequate designs. I've lost count of the times I have encountered bad design in aircraft that makes them a pain to service and maintain.

  24. #15
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Actually, i forgot the bofors! would we fit one into a casa and be able to fire it out of the side of it?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  25. #16
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    AC-235 - we could make the AC-235 IR (instead of fitting all the mad sensors etc, just angle grinder a hole in the side, shove the bofors barrel out through it and then reinforce the floot and bolt the bofors to it :D :D :D
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  26. #17
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    Would you put the scorpion 76 on the roof or the belly, where the radar used to be?
    i was going to slice the 76 out of the turret :D but maybe sticking the turret upside down on the belly would be better!
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  28. #18
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    why did the diesel conversion of the Landys and Bedfords fail, when the manufacturer succeeded in due course
    Trying to mate wrong engines, gear boxes and electrical systems being the issue, doing it on the cheap as opposed to having it done correctly as usual

    I'd have converted the Comets
    Mechanics were 30 years old at the point of retirement
    Just visiting

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  30. #19
    C/S EUFighter's Avatar
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    Pity we have gone with Ford F150s, there is just so much available with the second-hand Toyota technical!
    Attachment 8495Attachment 8496Attachment 8497Attachment 8498

    You start with the standard twin 23mm mount on the back, always a good one to blast away with. If you want to have a bit more bang then the Toyota-BMP packs a handy 73mm cannon but to give that indirect fire the new in this years collection is a Chinese Mk56 MLRS on the back. If you want you can also get the option support struts added for a few Ak47s more.

  31. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    the 76mm shell is probably too light as a bombardment round unless you gave it terminal guidance of some kind.
    Then stick a 25 pounder out the side door, Does the floor have tie down rings.?

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  33. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    What we could have done is something the Canadians did with their Piranha I based AVGP variant the Cougar. Just take the turret from the Scorpions and mount it onto a MOWAG.
    Which would be a bit like putting a record player in a car

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  35. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by paul g View Post
    Which would be a bit like putting a record player in a car
    45 or 78?
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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