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  • #91
    Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
    the whole pension thing needs changing as the whole public sector pension thing needs to be addressed , the concept of service as opposed to contribution is no longer viable given people are living longer and the government can no longer pay pensions based on the levels of contributions people make. The fixed payment pension needs to be got rid of and people need to contribute more to their own pension if they want the money on retirement.
    Not so fast. In an age where there's massive tax avoidance by corporations and wealthy individuals, and wages decoupled from increasing in line with productivity (from Thatcherism and Reaganism) from the 80s onwards, going after ordinary joe soaps' pensions is just theft. And those among the retired mandarin and politician class who are most vocal on it should really give up their own pensions first, or at least forego them while they enjoy all those lucrative private sector rewards (as used to be the case until the 60s, I think. Good old Lemass, eh?).
    Last edited by DaithiDub; 10 February 2018, 00:40.

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    • #92
      It should be remembered that private sector pensions were heavily punished these last few years with a levy that FF/FG brought in post crash, and only recently removed; this has killed several years earnings for many.
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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      • #93
        Originally posted by trellheim View Post
        It should be remembered that private sector pensions were heavily punished these last few years with a levy that FF/FG brought in post crash, and only recently removed; this has killed several years earnings for many.
        'Private sector pensions' have themselves become little more than a way for execs to avoid taxes, and a pot for companies to raid. Short-sighted beggar-my-neighbour attitudes do nothing to help out PAYE workers, like most of us here. And we know from experience that all pension pots, public or private, are liable to be seized for the bankers or whoever happens along.

        Accepting the crocodile tears over 'affordability' is a chump's game in any case - there's nothing to stop them taking the money anyway. The emphasis should be on consequences for breaking pension commitments.
        Last edited by DaithiDub; 10 February 2018, 19:12.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by DaithiDub View Post
          'Private sector pensions' have themselves become little more than a way for execs to avoid taxes, and a pot for companies to raid. Short-sighted beggar-my-neighbour attitudes do nothing to help out PAYE workers, like most of us here. And we know from experience that all pension pots, public or private, are liable to be seized for the bankers or whoever happens along.

          Accepting the crocodile tears over 'affordability' is a chump's game in any case - there's nothing to stop them taking the money anyway. The emphasis should be on consequences for breaking pension commitments.
          There is this misconception that there is a 'public service pot'... there isn't.

          The budgets allocated to the various departments pay wages , salaries and pensions! My pension contribution is actually paying some retired persons weekly income at the moment as will some else pay mine when I retire.

          There is nothing to guarantee that I will get back what I contributed or even that there will be a service pension on my retirement, but I have no option but to pay into it...and pay a further tax on that contribution , just because I have a pension.

          I will retire with 25 years or so public service, but my weekly pension receipt will be less than that which I contributed, and thats not even taking my pension levy into account.

          For early entrants spending a full reckonable service, in the case of the public service this would be 40 years, the pension is adequate reflection of the amount paid in, but any thing less than full service, the payout decreases rapidly even though I pay the same on a weekly basis.

          The origins of public service pensions was sound enough as persons weren't entitled to the state old age pension, after 1982 this changed with new entrants to the public service being required to pay a full stamp and changed their pension contributions.

          I would be far better off if I were to invest that amount I pay into my public service pension and levy into a private pension , on retirement, but I can't.

          I'll retire at 66, no choice and if I live another 15 years, I'll be Joe Average, but the state will have ripped me off to the tune of 8 years payments!

          So IMHO, public service pensions need to be changed.
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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          • #95
            Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            There is this misconception that there is a 'public service pot'... there isn't.
            Untrue. There was an NPRF, designed to cover future pension provision, which was plundered at the first need of the government of the day (in this case, to bail out private banks). The US experience shows how signing up to concern-trolling about the 'viability' of pensions decades in the future is a scam, and the target will always be moved. The real aim is to do away with it entirely.

            The budgets allocated to the various departments pay wages , salaries and pensions! My pension contribution is actually paying some retired persons weekly income at the moment as will some else pay mine when I retire.
            Yes. I'm familiar with how it's set up.

            There is nothing to guarantee that I will get back what I contributed or even that there will be a service pension on my retirement, but I have no option but to pay into it...and pay a further tax on that contribution , just because I have a pension.

            I will retire with 25 years or so public service, but my weekly pension receipt will be less than that which I contributed, and thats not even taking my pension levy into account.

            For early entrants spending a full reckonable service, in the case of the public service this would be 40 years, the pension is adequate reflection of the amount paid in, but any thing less than full service, the payout decreases rapidly even though I pay the same on a weekly basis.

            The origins of public service pensions was sound enough as persons weren't entitled to the state old age pension, after 1982 this changed with new entrants to the public service being required to pay a full stamp and changed their pension contributions.
            Not the whole picture here. Pre-1982 entrants are able to build up stamp to get the State pension on top of their public sector pensions. Someone I know, entitled to the thirty-year pension, has just done this - and perfectly legal.

            I would be far better off if I were to invest that amount I pay into my public service pension and levy into a private pension , on retirement, but I can't.
            If you really believe that paying into the private pension industry is a better option, then we've nothing to say to each other here.

            I'll retire at 66, no choice and if I live another 15 years, I'll be Joe Average, but the state will have ripped me off to the tune of 8 years payments!

            So IMHO, public service pensions need to be changed.
            If you're saying that discrepancies within the public sector pensions (not least with the new State pension ages) need to be fixed to the benefit of the PAYE punter, then I've no problem with that. But people who buy into the disaster model being promoted of pension provision in general are being fooled (and it needs to be emphasised that the private sector/free market types have several direct financial interests in promoting this). There is always money in the State's kitty, if there's a political will. NAMA has proven that.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by DaithiDub View Post
              There is always money in the State's kitty, if there's a political will. NAMA has proven that.
              Only if your willing to pay more tax, cut public services massively and borrow heavily

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              • #97
                Much as this is an interesting sideline, its not on-topic. Start another thread if you wish to discuss pensions, public and private.
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  Only if your willing to pay more tax, cut public services massively and borrow heavily
                  As we indeed are for the 'cheapest bank bailout in history'. If the money can be found to pay off the mega-rich, it can be found for ordinary pensioners. In any case, off-topic as Trellheim says.

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