Thanks Thanks:  31
Likes Likes:  40
Dislikes Dislikes:  3
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 98
  1. #51
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Many frontline services , including the BA, use reservists in combat units. If reservists are NOT a functional reserve then disband such forces and
    institute a 3year lottery conscription.
    Indeed they do......and if reservists had been given the proper supports back in 2005 around the Re Org of the RDF with employment legislation changes it might have happned. I'm unsure of the current effectiveness of the NSR but using them as cheap labour to back fill vacancies is never going to be a long term solution.

    Conscription..in Ireland........em...no.....the looney left loose the plot when the yanks pull into shannon for a smoke....conscription.... you really want to kill them off!

    was a Lieut. watchkeeper and there were NO S/Lieut watchkeepers until a class of 4 Cadets came through, and eventually they became Lieuts in due time. In the Naval Service qualified watchkeepers can be of either rank as it is not specifically only a Sub's job.
    Some of Eithnes Watchkeepers were Lts.. but they didn't need to be....we should never have a time where we have more Lts. than we have S/Lts. thats just a poor manpower managment issue.

    In answer to the question if the reservists could deploy to the med for 3 months - did anyone ask them ? If I had to plan it out a year in advance I probably could.
    Interesting question, but I reckon the key appointments are not a problem to fill. Missions like these tend to be career moves and not to be available is a black mark so if you look at the actual vacancies, appointments will be thin on the ground.

    2-3 years as a S/Lt before NWC is awarded
    Since when?????

    Would be rare to have a S/Lt that hadn't sat his watch keepers withing 6 months of being promoted. Remember as Ensigns they are understudies and learning on the job.
    Just visiting

  2. #52
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    The Big Smoke
    Posts
    4,892
    Post Thanks / Like
    Do graduates who join the NS as cadets not get commissioned as Sub Lt now, similar to their Army counterparts?

  3. Likes DeV liked this post
  4. #53
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Since when?????

    Would be rare to have a S/Lt that hadn't sat his watch keepers withing 6 months of being promoted. Remember as Ensigns they are understudies and learning on the job.
    The cadetship is now 2 years (Cadet training for 1 year and 1st year of the Level 7 degree in NMCI).

    On completion of their 1st year exams they are commissioned as an Ensign or S/Lt (if they already hold a degree). That is the start of a 3 year short service commission.

    They then do 2nd year of the level 7 and then the add on 1 year of the level 8 degree (as a Ensign or S/Lt).

    On completion of the degree they do the 6 month Naval Watchkeeping Cse (maybe they do this between the level 7 and level 8 http://www.cit.ie/course/CRSNASC8)

    That is from a mixture of the DF, NMCI and CIT websites.
    Last edited by DeV; 25th January 2018 at 16:45.

  5. Thanks Truck Driver thanked for this post
  6. #54
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,280
    Post Thanks / Like
    Interesting question, but I reckon the key appointments are not a problem to fill. Missions like these tend to be career moves and not to be available is a black mark so if you look at the actual vacancies, appointments will be thin on the ground.
    yes lol fair point but it doesnt have to be Sophia either but I take your point, same thing in the Army, I'll not be a platoon commander in UNDOF.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  7. #55
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Afaik not in the NS because they have to go to NMCI
    When they had to go to CIT they still had to go to another 3rd level after. Many went to UCG.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  8. #56
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    When they had to go to CIT they still had to go to another 3rd level after. Many went to UCG.
    I assume that stopped with NMCI?

  9. #57
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I assume that stopped with NMCI?
    That is what I am asking. If someone does not have an existing 3rd level qualification, do they have to get one, in addition to either their engineering or deck officer qualification?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  10. #58
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    Do graduates who join the NS as cadets not get commissioned as Sub Lt now, similar to their Army counterparts?
    They do...

    On completion of the degree they do the 6 month Naval Watchkeeping Cse (maybe they do this between the level 7 and level 8 http://www.cit.ie/course/CRSNASC8)
    Which they can only do as S/Lts....so back to my point watchkeepers within two years of commissioning ...not from promotion to S/Lt assuming they were commissioned as Ensigns....

    yes lol fair point but it doesnt have to be Sophia either but I take your point, same thing in the Army, I'll not be a platoon commander in UNDOF.
    I was generalising around Naval missions, army missions for junior officers are probably similar...and there is that little thing about not having done overseas trips and how it effects contracts!
    Just visiting

  11. #59
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Which they can only do as S/Lts....so back to my point watchkeepers within two years of commissioning ...not from promotion to S/Lt assuming they were commissioned as Ensigns....!
    What they can only do as S/Lts?

    You will notice of course that Ensigns aren’t included in the figures (same as army 2/Lts) for strength purposes Ensign (2/Lt) and S/Lt (Lt) are the same rank.

    The question is do they do the NWC before the level 8 or after?
    Last edited by DeV; 25th January 2018 at 22:41.

  12. #60
    2/Lt
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,006
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What they can only do as S/Lts?

    You will notice of course that Ensigns aren’t included in the figures (same as army 2/Lts) for strength purposes Ensign (2/Lt) and S/Lt (Lt) are the same rank.

    The question is do they do the NWC before the level 8 or after?
    The development of all Naval training has seen aspects of all mil courses assimilated as part of a cert or degree course. In this case the NWC is the final part of been awarded a Hons Level 8 Degree. The answer is more or less at the same time.

  13. #61
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The development of all Naval training has seen aspects of all mil courses assimilated as part of a cert or degree course. In this case the NWC is the final part of been awarded a Hons Level 8 Degree. The answer is more or less at the same time.
    So in that case, it is 2 year cadetship (including 1st year of Level 7)
    Commissioned as Ensign (S/Lt if already a graduate)
    Complete 2nd year of Level 7
    Complete the Level 8 (1 year)
    Complete the 6 month NWC course

    So they hold the NWC after 2-3 year commissioned service

  14. #62
    2/Lt
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,006
    Post Thanks / Like
    about right except I think the award of Level 8 comes with completion of the NWC.

  15. Thanks na grohmití, DeV thanked for this post
  16. #63
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    What they can only do as S/Lts?
    Complete watchkeepers... no Ensign watch keepers

    So they hold the NWC after 2-3 year commissioned service
    By that logic they can only perform their basic function 3 years after being commissioned as opposed to 18 months in the past.......
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 27th January 2018 at 22:51.
    Just visiting

  17. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
  18. #64
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    By that logic they can only perform their basic function 3 years after being commissioned as opposed to 18 months in the past.......
    And around the time their SSCr runs out

  19. #65
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    And around the time their SSCr runs out
    That is a pretty recent introduction. It was not always the case.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  20. #66
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    That is a pretty recent introduction. It was not always the case.
    No it hasn’t (since at least 2011)

    But we are discussing the critical lack of NS junior officers (plus JNCOs and ratings) now and under the current system.

    Don’t get it wrong it seems like the SSC could be part of the problem. It would appear that the NS gets zero (guaranteed) return for 4+ training

  21. #67
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    No it hasn’t (since at least 2011)

    But we are discussing the critical lack of NS junior officers (plus JNCOs and ratings) now and under the current system.

    Don’t get it wrong it seems like the SSC could be part of the problem. It would appear that the NS gets zero (guaranteed) return for 4+ training
    When the alternative is an unqualified officer, no use for anything except perhaps some minor admin post, and a position that would be better held by an experienced SNCO.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  22. #68
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    I mean that if the training has to continue as is the SSC would be better of being 8-10 years as currently once they are qualified they can leave

  23. #69
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    Why would training need to continue? They either make the grade or not.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  24. #70
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Why would training need to continue? They either make the grade or not.
    Need to continue as is (see 61)

    It takes 4 years to get someone to the stage where they have a NWC and then they can leave
    Last edited by DeV; 28th January 2018 at 20:16.

  25. #71
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    13,238
    Post Thanks / Like
    Short service commission for anything other than direct entries or qualified watch keepers is ridiculous!
    Just visiting

  26. Likes na grohmití, DeV liked this post
  27. #72
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bringing a cadet to the stage they are even at a level they can sit their Class 3 exam is somewhere the state has already expended a huge sum on their training. To retain them after they have not achieved is wasteful and would have been flagged by NMCI more than 12 months before.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  28. Likes hptmurphy liked this post
  29. #73
    2/Lt
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    1,006
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Short service commission for anything other than direct entries or qualified watch keepers is ridiculous!
    In all Naval services that use Short Service Commissions, the candidates come in qualified as a Watchkeeper or as a Certified Marine Engineer. The idea was buy expertise and fortify it with sufficient Naval training so that he/she could become a useful Naval Officer.
    Equally officers of these types could be attracted from shipping companies as part of Naval Reserve by giving them 6 months intensive training on shore and at sea. They would then return to their companies and be available by signed agreement to return to duty on call-up protocol.
    Many more serving NCO's and Ratings should be put into a commissioning stream and be given the necessary skills to succeed to all levels.
    The degree education introduction for YO's had to delay useful use of officers, as obtaining the degree had to be successfully concluded. There is no point at this time unpicking an accepted/required Modus Operandi.

  30. #74
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Short service commission for anything other than direct entries or qualified watch keepers is ridiculous!
    For the NS absolutely (unless they start filling admin and logs posts in the non traditional way but then your eating into the jobs for the shore rotation).

    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Bringing a cadet to the stage they are even at a level they can sit their Class 3 exam is somewhere the state has already expended a huge sum on their training. To retain them after they have not achieved is wasteful and would have been flagged by NMCI more than 12 months before.
    I think you could be taking me up the wrong way.

    My point is that the OUT who passes everything and receives his NWC is under no contractual obligation to stay in the NS on successful completion (because the SSC finishes more or less around the same time as the NWC Cse).


    Of course it means it is easier to get rid of people as well.

  31. #75
    Major General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    3,541
    Post Thanks / Like
    My understanding is, and I am open to correction, is that the ssc lapses before completion of time as OUT. If you make the grade, you sign a new commitment to x years. If not, byeee.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •