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  1. #1
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Operation Seabright

    https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018...caine-seizure/

    1 DSM and 2 Commendations awarded to the NS today

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  3. #2
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    Seabight. Named after the Porcupine Seabight.
    Delighted for Geno Ryan. There was a huge amount of technical work went into tracking the movement of the yacht, from Trinidad, and gathering the technical evidence afterwards to secure a prosecution, not only of the boats crew, but of the masterminds of the smuggling operation.
    Cdr Ryan (rtd) wrote about the action in Signal Magazine.
    http://raco.ie/attachments/056_Signal%207.2.pdf
    (page38).
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Thanks for the link Na G, that signal article was quiet informative.

    Am I wrong in my reading of the situation:

    A senior Naval Official Officer [ and by all accounts a decent bloke], gave orders to others and got a medal for his distinguished service.

    Whilst many miles away at sea in waves that were rough and six meters high a boarding party set sail and boarded the vessel of suspected drug dealers ( you know the lads who kill one another.), the boarding party got f Uck all in the way of medals.

    Ryan in his article did refer to the lads who went out in a stormy rough sea at night with waves 6 meters high who were ready to risk taking on f Uck Ing drug smugglers as “ the NS boarding party did what they were trained to do”

    Why did Ryan get the DSM, why the f uchk didn’t every one on the boarding party get it.

    If I read the thing wrong and Cmdr Ryan drove the boarding parties boat, was first onto the druggie vessel, disarmed the druggies and was home in time for tea, then I’ll delete this post and apologize to the man.

    I really thought shite like this stopped.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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  7. #4
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    No you have read it wrong. The Officer on the boarding boat got the DSM while the other two in charge got commendations.
    The photo in the article attached gives a clearer photo.
    http://emergencytimes.com/defence-fo...ion-operation/
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  9. #5
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Really depends on the citation

    Remembering of course that this is a DSM, which can of course be awarded for leadership

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  11. #6
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    No you have read it wrong. The Officer on the boarding boat got the DSM while the other two in charge got commendations.
    The photo in the article attached gives a clearer photo.
    http://emergencytimes.com/defence-fo...ion-operation/
    I got it slightly wrong mate. Ryan got a commendation for giving orders, Brett got a commendation for [?] and the boarding party officer must have been the only one to ride the rough 6 meter seas and board the smugglers vessel. Why did no enlisted personnel get the DSM, did they not display bravery, courage and devotion to duty.

    It sickens me that this crap is still going on.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  12. #7
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    Lt Cdr Brett was OC of one of the vessels and on scene commander. Cdr Retired planned the operation. He followed it through the courts in ireland and the UK and helped put many in jail for a very long time.
    The Boarding party officer would have been first off the RhIB. The others in the boat may have been recommended for many things but the award is what it is. It is not unusual in the NS unfortunately.
    All 3 deserved what they got, in my opinion.
    DSM for first in the door.
    Scroll saying "well done" to officers in the background.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  14. #8
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Lt Cdr Brett was OC of one of the vessels and on scene commander. Cdr Retired planned the operation. He followed it through the courts in ireland and the UK and helped put many in jail for a very long time.
    The Boarding party officer would have been first off the RhIB. The others in the boat may have been recommended for many things but the award is what it is. It is not unusual in the NS unfortunately.
    All 3 deserved what they got, in my opinion.
    DSM for first in the door.
    Scroll saying "well done" to officers in the background.
    It’s a distinguished service medal. How did the OIC boarding party exemplify that distinguish criteria more than no 2in the door or more than the last person in the door.

    Otherwise he simply got it because he is an officer.

    There was at least 12 people on that detail, how come the 3 who get the brownie points are officers.

    Did not 1enlisted person distinguish himself / herself during that op
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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  16. #9
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    By the way, from what I heard, the 3 Officers are thoroughly decent blokes and good officers.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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    In The past the Boat drivers etc. got the medals.

    To my mind in this case medals were given out for doing a days work.

    Our awards system is that which is at fault and not the guys.

    In this case a unit citation should have been awarded to the crew as the whole crew have a part to play in every operation.

    I'm with Hedgie on this one.

    Again the DSM is now an award whose merit has been undermined because of the way it has been handed out.

    I'm sue the guys involved would have preferred a pay rise!
    Time for another break I think......

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  20. #11
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    I have it on good authority that this award was not possible whilst a certain former FOCNS now employed elsewhere in the DF was FOCNS. Something along the lines of not wanting more DSMs in the NS to dilute the value of his own

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  22. #12
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    All at the front edge should have been awarded. Those following orders necessitating hazardous duty which could have included armed resistance are all equally deserving. The boats crew may have been recommended but chance then takes over. J. Cotter nonetheless deserves his medal, the boats crew were also glorious in naval terms. If it were me they would have have been recommended.

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    I shit myself at the thought of crossing a body of water- I couldn't even estimate the bravery of lads getting into a small speed boat in rough seas that measure 6 metres.

    Nor could I even come close to the genius or guile required to plan an operation like this.

    They are all better sea hags than I am. and that's Officers and Enlisted ( so this isn't a them v us rant),

    I genuinely cant see why everyone of the boarding party (brave bollixes) didn't get some sort of recognition whether it be DSM or scabby commendation and I would hope if I was still serving that I would have the balls to realise that if a DSM only related to Officers then the DSM is being purposely devalued.

    If you don't believe me- remember that great warrior screaming Jim Shit Shreenan was awarded the DSM.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  25. #14
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    Whats the strength of a boarding party?
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  26. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    I shit myself at the thought of crossing a body of water- I couldn't even estimate the bravery of lads getting into a small speed boat in rough seas that measure 6 metres.

    Nor could I even come close to the genius or guile required to plan an operation like this.

    They are all better sea hags than I am. and that's Officers and Enlisted ( so this isn't a them v us rant),

    I genuinely cant see why everyone of the boarding party (brave bollixes) didn't get some sort of recognition whether it be DSM or scabby commendation and I would hope if I was still serving that I would have the balls to realise that if a DSM only related to Officers then the DSM is being purposely devalued.

    If you don't believe me- remember that great warrior screaming Jim Shit Shreenan was awarded the DSM.
    Shreenan got his DSM for having been COS. The man was a bully and not what we seek from a modern leader but there is no denying that anyone that becomes COS has had distinguished service. Should there be mire DSMs issued? Yes but not a quota which would devalue the award

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  28. #16
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    I know what you’re saying, but what this this DSM recipient do that his boarding party crew didn’t do,

    Why not give it to an arbitrary recipient such as the youngest, the gingerest, the married ist, the Dub, the Culchie or the enlisted/ officer?
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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  30. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    I know what you’re saying, but what this this DSM recipient do that his boarding party crew didn’t do,

    Why not give it to an arbitrary recipient such as the youngest, the gingerest, the married ist, the Dub, the Culchie or the enlisted/ officer?
    Well he would have provided the leadership for a start. Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.

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  32. #18
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    So let’s get this right, he got a dsm for leading a boarding party. Thought that was a basic duty while working in the naval service as an officer. I wonder was he the first guy off the boarding boat? Was there gun fire?
    Last edited by ibenji; 3rd February 2018 at 07:27.

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  34. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Whats the strength of a boarding party?
    According to The Journal, ten.

    Interesting quote,
    "He said that there was nothing particularly tricky or surprising about the operation other than the severe weather conditions, and commended the RIB coxswains who steered the boat close to Dances with Waves and kept it steady during the operation."

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  36. #20
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Well he would have provided the leadership for a start. Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.
    A commander is responsible for everything his unit does or fails to do

  37. #21
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    If the boarding party were 10, then it is likely more that one boarding craft was in use, with a boarding in strength op scenario. Gunfire would not be unexpected depending on the smuggler types. The contraband is the property of the state through the receiver of wrecks (Customs ) The boat " Dances with Waves" the same. Traditionally values are where possible realised and divided between the state and ALL those participating. The boats crews sit high on my awards list. Well done to the doers who follow orders. Bravo.

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  39. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Lt Cdr Brett was OC of one of the vessels and on scene commander. Cdr Retired planned the operation. He followed it through the courts in ireland and the UK and helped put many in jail for a very long time.
    The Boarding party officer would have been first off the RhIB. The others in the boat may have been recommended for many things but the award is what it is. It is not unusual in the NS unfortunately.
    All 3 deserved what they got, in my opinion.
    DSM for first in the door.
    Scroll saying "well done" to officers in the background.
    This is getting a lot of airtime, and I was talking to civvies tonight that were under the impression that this was solely a 3 man operation (civvies are stupid, but they vote and pay taxes etc).

    There is a lot of myths around this operation, I seriously doubt any of the lads who got the handshakes were responsible for spreading these myths. Lets debunk them. I thank Na G for this post because he succinctly set out exactly what my civvie mates were thinking.

    Cdr Retired planned the operation.
    Cdr Ryan was part of an ops cell, he didn't go into a room on his own and come out 2 days later with a plan. Anyone who worked in Ops would know this- Ryan supervised a team of officers and enlisted personnel who formulated the plan. Also involved were the Gardaí, the customs and some shady characters who studied at Oxford. The point is that there was more than Commander Ryan at the planning and monitoring phase.

    He followed it through the courts in ireland and the UK
    Ah come on mate, even the most ardent Trump supporter wouldn't use this. We all followed the case through the Courts, the DF's legal team along with the DPP, the GS, the Customs and the media all followed this case through the courts.

    and helped put many in jail for a very long time.
    There is no doubt that he helped put them in jail for a long time. However, the entire boarding party, and the crews of the 2 support vessels actually ensured they would go to jail for a very long time.

    We should also thank the Gardaí, the prosecution and the shady Oxford lads for their part as well.

    The Boarding party officer would have been first off the RhIB. The others in the boat may have been recommended for many things but the award is what it is. It is not unusual in the NS unfortunately.
    I don't know if this is factual, I read a few accounts and I couldn't find it. However,

    A short time later, in rough six metre seas, a boarding party from the LE Niamh was lowered onto navy Seariders and dispatched to intercept the vessel. Visibility was down to 500 metres and the vessels soon began to lose sight of their Seariders. ... a situation, in dangerous seas in the dead of night. It’s very fluid, because while we may know a considerable amount about the vessel itself, we may not have detailed knowledge of the personalities on-board or what they are willing to do.
    Saying the Award is what is it- doesn't justify the arbitrary nature of singling 3 people out .

    All 3 deserved what they got, in my opinion.
    I think this is where our opinions go opposite ways mate. I have no doubt all 3 deserved what they got, but in my view and the view of a hell of a lot of others, everyone on that boarding party should have got the DSM- Everyone of them deserved it.

    Real leadership doesn't just involve doing the brave stuff, it also involves doing the right stuff, and that right stuff should have been that the 3 officers saying we all get the awards or none of us get the awards.

    The chief has once again devalued the DSM and that to me is a kick in the bollix to those DSM recipients who thoroughly deserve it. To cap it all, this debacle took place on the anniversary week of an incident that led to the DSM being given to 2 real heroes.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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  41. #23
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    Hedge, you are being disingenuous. I'm sure you knew exactly what I meant when I say Cdr Ryan follows it through the courts. Cdr Ryan went far beyond the normal responsibility of officers involved in drugs captures in the NS (including the current CoS) in providing evidence for foreign juristictions to secure a prosecution.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/nava...maran-1.621369
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-26534644.html

    I note in photos the presence of senior representatives from An Garda Siochana at yesterdays event. I recognise assistant commissioners and detective superintendants however there appears to be no presence from Customs. I can only assume they had no involvement in planning, apart from having a boat ready when the yacht arrived for a photoshoot.
    In arguing so vocally for the non officers to get medals do you not think you are devaluing the medal that was awarded? In your mind do officers not deserve a medal unless a non officer gets one too?
    As for civvies, when did they ever have a clue? Many don't even know we have an army, never mind a naval service.
    Whether they believe it was a 3 man operation or a 600 man one is irrelevant.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  42. #24
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Hedge, you are being disingenuous.
    You make it sound dirty.

    In arguing so vocally for the non officers to get medals do you not think you are devaluing the medal that was awarded? In your mind do officers not deserve a medal unless a non officer gets one too?
    Actually the opposite mate- they were a team, each one had a part to play- a vital part at that. If bullets had started firing it wouldn't have distinguished between Officers and Enlisted folk. I am sure you know that those boarding parties act as a single unit- great team strength.

    My argument is that everyone should have got the award or none should have got it.

    Unless you can tell me that the DSM recipient did something that none of the other boarding party did. Cmdr Ryan wrote,

    As events transpired, the NS boarding party did what they were trained to do and the boat was surrendered;
    If one of those who received the award said that no thanks Mark stick it up your PR enhanced hole unless everyone gets the award- that lad would in my opinion be the best leader of men ever and I would follow him into battle 12 times a day 6 days a week (not Sundays though).

    Have a read of the last 6 paragraphs of this article (ignore the first bit it in no way relates to our lads)
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...n-bravery.html
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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  44. #25
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    Whilst it would be great for everyone to get a DSM, that isnt really how the system works. Enough begrudgary, just be grateful that someone got recognition for a job well done

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