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  • #46
    Wooooahhhhh,


    Can you name a COS who “turned the DF around”
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
      Wooooahhhhh,


      Can you name a COS who “turned the DF around”
      not single handled obviously

      But look at the positive changes in the DF that were implemented due to the Gleeson Commission and the 1998 reorg

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        not single handled obviously

        But look at the positive changes in the DF that were implemented due to the Gleeson Commission and the 1998 reorg

        Let’s be honest no COS has done anything that could honestly be deemed to be beneficial to the core components (the troops) of the DF.

        Dave Stapleton came the closest.
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
          Let’s be honest no COS has done anything that could honestly be deemed to be beneficial to the core components (the troops) of the DF.

          Dave Stapleton came the closest.
          The position and conditions applying to the post of COS is a bit presidential with no real power. To get anything done it depends on the relationship within the general staff and the Brigade commands . A COS would have to put his future on the line to make radical noises for turning things around. Retired associations such as PDFORRA and IARCO would have more Media access, and would be better at a planned assault on Parkgate mandarins..
          There was a premature assumption that only officers get recommended for awards, it turns out that there is still a DSM to be given to a former rate from the Dances with Wolves incident.
          I agree that occasionally in a burst of gratitude an award can get misdirected. All recommendations must pass through AG's branch and
          will live or die thereafter.
          Carl O'Sullivan scraped up 1 million punts to a put a proper gun on the Eithne in 1983. I thought he was the bees knees. We were in danger of getting a GFE from stores.
          In the fire on Aisling, by the way loaded below and above deck with live ammunition for the PDF, an officer recommended the award of medals to a number of ratings, with his prime choice going to a young engineroom mechanician , who had been instructed to remain in the control room to answer the phone, while the outside of the room was been lapped by flame. The NCO had left to call the Engineer and to release the smothering system into the generator room. The young guy could see the fire through the control room windows and yet stood his ground . I was impressed.

          Comment


          • #50
            The position and conditions applying to the post of COS is a bit presidential with no real power
            No its not. And if it is, then why the DSM for a lad who has "no real power". The COS is the power in the DF.

            To get anything done it depends on the relationship within the general staff and the Brigade commands
            You do realise its a military organisation, they don't have to like you or even respect you- but they do have to do what you say. As a recruit I learned that.


            A COS would have to put his future on the line to make radical noises for turning things around
            This is something I can never understand- the Chief is the pinnacle of ones career, there is no promotion from Chief to anything else. If you are the Sec Gen of the Dept you can get promoted on retirement to the board of this or the board of that- but I do not know of any retired chief who got a cushy board appointment.

            What have they to be afraid of. Dave Stapleton threatened the Dept with his resignation and the Dept backed down.

            Lets be clear, there is no next step from COS. the holder should have the bollox to say- what can you fu ckers do to me...


            There was a premature assumption that only officers get recommended for awards, it turns out that there is still a DSM to be given to a former rate from the Dances with Wolves incident.
            It should never be down to an officers v enlisted choice- every one of that boarding party crew should get the DSM. They all displayed balls of carbonite.
            If the crew of the LE Hedgehog (150 all ranks) did the same brave thing then the entire crew of the LE Hedgehog should get the medal. Not just the boss and a token working class lad.


            All recommendations must pass through AG's branch and
            will live or die thereafter.
            You are showing your age

            Carl O'Sullivan scraped up 1 million punts to a put a proper gun on the Eithne in 1983. I thought he was the bees knees. We were in danger of getting a GFE from stores.
            he NCO had left to call the Engineer and to release the smothering system into the generator room. The young guy could see the fire through the control room windows and yet stood his ground . I was impressed.
            How did it turn out?
            Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
            Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
            The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
            The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
            The best lack all conviction, while the worst
            Are full of passionate intensity.

            Comment


            • #51
              How did it turn out?
              Ship made it home....if things had gone any differently lets just say the NS would have been on ship plus crew shorter in an instant!

              the fact that the escort ships were order to move away gives some idea about the potential out comes.

              This should have been the bench mark used for the Cliona incident where DSMs were issued. but there was military politics involved, the guilty were never punished and as a result the righteous went unrewarded.

              in fairness all we have is a brief paragraph
              If heroism doesn't jump off the page , I really don't want to know !

              I
              t should never be down to an officers v enlisted choice- every one of that boarding party crew should get the DSM. They all displayed balls of carbonite.
              If the crew of the LE Hedgehog (150 all ranks) did the same brave thing then the entire crew of the LE Hedgehog should get the medal. Not just the boss and a token working class lad.
              But its has time again to the point of where 'If I'm not getting one... no one is '!!!!

              This is where Unit Citations need to be addressed, the guy who carried the human remains down the gang way on the day of the Air India was as entitled to an award as the guy who took them from the water, but knowing some of the people involved the three guys in the boat in particular they actually put themselves in the way of harm, how many can say that?

              Meritorious service vers bravery or heroism is what needs to be addressed. One set of awards cannot cover all eventualities.

              Until this is done we'll have this conversation time and time again
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

              Comment


              • #52
                MOD: I have moved the posts relating the COS and his authority/spending power to a separate thread

                Comment

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