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  • #16
    I know what you’re saying, but what this this DSM recipient do that his boarding party crew didn’t do,

    Why not give it to an arbitrary recipient such as the youngest, the gingerest, the married ist, the Dub, the Culchie or the enlisted/ officer?
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
      I know what you’re saying, but what this this DSM recipient do that his boarding party crew didn’t do,

      Why not give it to an arbitrary recipient such as the youngest, the gingerest, the married ist, the Dub, the Culchie or the enlisted/ officer?
      Well he would have provided the leadership for a start. Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.

      Comment


      • #18
        So let’s get this right, he got a dsm for leading a boarding party. Thought that was a basic duty while working in the naval service as an officer. I wonder was he the first guy off the boarding boat? Was there gun fire?
        Last edited by ibenji; 3 February 2018, 08:27.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
          Whats the strength of a boarding party?
          According to The Journal, ten.

          Interesting quote,
          "He said that there was nothing particularly tricky or surprising about the operation other than the severe weather conditions, and commended the RIB coxswains who steered the boat close to Dances with Waves and kept it steady during the operation."

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
            Well he would have provided the leadership for a start. Success has many fathers but failure is an orphan.
            A commander is responsible for everything his unit does or fails to do

            Comment


            • #21
              If the boarding party were 10, then it is likely more that one boarding craft was in use, with a boarding in strength op scenario. Gunfire would not be unexpected depending on the smuggler types. The contraband is the property of the state through the receiver of wrecks (Customs ) The boat " Dances with Waves" the same. Traditionally values are where possible realised and divided between the state and ALL those participating. The boats crews sit high on my awards list. Well done to the doers who follow orders. Bravo.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                Lt Cdr Brett was OC of one of the vessels and on scene commander. Cdr Retired planned the operation. He followed it through the courts in ireland and the UK and helped put many in jail for a very long time.
                The Boarding party officer would have been first off the RhIB. The others in the boat may have been recommended for many things but the award is what it is. It is not unusual in the NS unfortunately.
                All 3 deserved what they got, in my opinion.
                DSM for first in the door.
                Scroll saying "well done" to officers in the background.
                This is getting a lot of airtime, and I was talking to civvies tonight that were under the impression that this was solely a 3 man operation (civvies are stupid, but they vote and pay taxes etc).

                There is a lot of myths around this operation, I seriously doubt any of the lads who got the handshakes were responsible for spreading these myths. Lets debunk them. I thank Na G for this post because he succinctly set out exactly what my civvie mates were thinking.

                Cdr Retired planned the operation.
                Cdr Ryan was part of an ops cell, he didn't go into a room on his own and come out 2 days later with a plan. Anyone who worked in Ops would know this- Ryan supervised a team of officers and enlisted personnel who formulated the plan. Also involved were the Gardaí, the customs and some shady characters who studied at Oxford. The point is that there was more than Commander Ryan at the planning and monitoring phase.

                He followed it through the courts in ireland and the UK
                Ah come on mate, even the most ardent Trump supporter wouldn't use this. We all followed the case through the Courts, the DF's legal team along with the DPP, the GS, the Customs and the media all followed this case through the courts.

                and helped put many in jail for a very long time.
                There is no doubt that he helped put them in jail for a long time. However, the entire boarding party, and the crews of the 2 support vessels actually ensured they would go to jail for a very long time.

                We should also thank the Gardaí, the prosecution and the shady Oxford lads for their part as well.

                The Boarding party officer would have been first off the RhIB. The others in the boat may have been recommended for many things but the award is what it is. It is not unusual in the NS unfortunately.
                I don't know if this is factual, I read a few accounts and I couldn't find it. However,

                A short time later, in rough six metre seas, a boarding party from the LE Niamh was lowered onto navy Seariders and dispatched to intercept the vessel. Visibility was down to 500 metres and the vessels soon began to lose sight of their Seariders. ... a situation, in dangerous seas in the dead of night. It’s very fluid, because while we may know a considerable amount about the vessel itself, we may not have detailed knowledge of the personalities on-board or what they are willing to do.
                Saying the Award is what is it- doesn't justify the arbitrary nature of singling 3 people out .

                All 3 deserved what they got, in my opinion.
                I think this is where our opinions go opposite ways mate. I have no doubt all 3 deserved what they got, but in my view and the view of a hell of a lot of others, everyone on that boarding party should have got the DSM- Everyone of them deserved it.

                Real leadership doesn't just involve doing the brave stuff, it also involves doing the right stuff, and that right stuff should have been that the 3 officers saying we all get the awards or none of us get the awards.

                The chief has once again devalued the DSM and that to me is a kick in the bollix to those DSM recipients who thoroughly deserve it. To cap it all, this debacle took place on the anniversary week of an incident that led to the DSM being given to 2 real heroes.
                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                Are full of passionate intensity.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hedge, you are being disingenuous. I'm sure you knew exactly what I meant when I say Cdr Ryan follows it through the courts. Cdr Ryan went far beyond the normal responsibility of officers involved in drugs captures in the NS (including the current CoS) in providing evidence for foreign juristictions to secure a prosecution.
                  AN IRISH Naval Service commander has told a court in London about the tracking of a catamaran across the Atlantic as a gang transported…

                  MEMBERS of elite Naval Service units are to be honoured for their bravery in boarding a €400m drugs yacht off the Irish coast in mountainous seas.


                  I note in photos the presence of senior representatives from An Garda Siochana at yesterdays event. I recognise assistant commissioners and detective superintendants however there appears to be no presence from Customs. I can only assume they had no involvement in planning, apart from having a boat ready when the yacht arrived for a photoshoot.
                  In arguing so vocally for the non officers to get medals do you not think you are devaluing the medal that was awarded? In your mind do officers not deserve a medal unless a non officer gets one too?
                  As for civvies, when did they ever have a clue? Many don't even know we have an army, never mind a naval service.
                  Whether they believe it was a 3 man operation or a 600 man one is irrelevant.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Hedge, you are being disingenuous.
                    You make it sound dirty.

                    In arguing so vocally for the non officers to get medals do you not think you are devaluing the medal that was awarded? In your mind do officers not deserve a medal unless a non officer gets one too?
                    Actually the opposite mate- they were a team, each one had a part to play- a vital part at that. If bullets had started firing it wouldn't have distinguished between Officers and Enlisted folk. I am sure you know that those boarding parties act as a single unit- great team strength.

                    My argument is that everyone should have got the award or none should have got it.

                    Unless you can tell me that the DSM recipient did something that none of the other boarding party did. Cmdr Ryan wrote,

                    As events transpired, the NS boarding party did what they were trained to do and the boat was surrendered;
                    If one of those who received the award said that no thanks Mark stick it up your PR enhanced hole unless everyone gets the award- that lad would in my opinion be the best leader of men ever and I would follow him into battle 12 times a day 6 days a week (not Sundays though).

                    Have a read of the last 6 paragraphs of this article (ignore the first bit it in no way relates to our lads)
                    The Queen is to strip Major Robert Michael Armstrong of the Military Cross after an investigation found he took the credit for the bravery of others
                    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                    Are full of passionate intensity.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Whilst it would be great for everyone to get a DSM, that isnt really how the system works. Enough begrudgary, just be grateful that someone got recognition for a job well done

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Three staple Irish replies

                        1. Invoke begrudgery

                        2. Its not how the system works

                        3. Just be grateful someone got it


                        For me its not begrudgeray by any means. Well done to the lads.

                        The system works like that because we allow the system to work like that

                        I would be grateful and silent if everyone who deserved the award got the recognition.

                        Its not too long ago that people said about the Jadotville lads that

                        This is how the system works, they should be grateful for what they got and too think outside that scope is begrudgeray.
                        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                        Are full of passionate intensity.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          There will be another medal issued to a now retired rating

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            As an aside is this the first time a retired serviceman has been in receipt of a commendation? Why the delay?
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                              As an aside is this the first time a retired serviceman has been in receipt of a commendation? Why the delay?
                              No there have been a few medics over the years.

                              I am told that this man doesn't want a parade. It will be a low key affair

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Nope....

                                If you look at the whole things its a fcuking farce, the op was ten years ago !

                                The Statute of limitations on the award of a DSM is 6 years..

                                The precedent for the award in actions of this nature actually goes back to the CoS from his action in the' Brime' affair.. at least he was in the vicinity at the time!

                                There are NS people former and serving who did far more that had a greater impact on peoples lives who got absolutely no recognition.

                                To my mind this award was made to justify awards to others!

                                And even on the day they got it wrong dress wise.....

                                No medals worn by those having awards made!!!!

                                People in point of contact deserve the medals, not those who put them there!!!
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                                Comment

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