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  1. #1
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    All Terrain Vehicles?

    OK, having spent this morning shovelling over a foot of snow from around my car, and with neighbours assisting in clearing the roads within our estate, only to be thwarted in any journey by what are still terrible driving conditions in this part of the country, I can't help wondering, why does the DF rely on 4x4 wheeled vehicles.
    Our winter lasts from November to March. It always has done. Some parts of the country are completely impassable for the majority of these months. Our vehicles are designed to be used on roads, or prepared tracks, away from this you want to have a good recovery vehicle handy.
    For the rest of the year, venturing off these roads and tracks can also be a hazard. The mountans are boggy after a heavy shower. Once the sod is broken you are struggling with wheels.
    During the summer months, we frequently have periods of heavy rain which leaves most of the country flooded. Your 4x4 or 6x6 may get through, depending on your intake position, but in deep floods there is always the danger of striking submerged obstacles.

    This latest emergency has seen the DF heroically provide all wheel drive vehicles for use of the emergency services. However on many occasions even these have to be pulled from the ditch, mostly by agricultural vehicles.
    So it isn't practical to have the DF in tractors. However, there is an answer, a vehicle that is already in limited use in both the DF and Civil defence. Tried and tested in civilian and military service worldwide.


    Its as practical as a Nissan or Pajero (with greater capacity). Powered by either a Ford transit or Mercedes engine. Tried and tested worldwide. Rubber tracks so you can drive them on road, if you need to. Alternatively fits happily on the back of a DROPS.
    Also available as an armoured version if so required.

    One would think it had been designed for Ireland.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  3. #2
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    https://youtu.be/Fm8J9-x1vSE

    or maybe this cheaper option...?

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  5. #3
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by restless View Post
    https://youtu.be/Fm8J9-x1vSE

    or maybe this cheaper option...?
    The Jeep dealer didn't give me THAT as an optional extra
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  6. #4
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    OK, having spent this morning shovelling over a foot of snow from around my car, and with neighbours assisting in clearing the roads within our estate, only to be thwarted in any journey by what are still terrible driving conditions in this part of the country, I can't help wondering, why does the DF rely on 4x4 wheeled vehicles.
    Our winter lasts from November to March. It always has done. Some parts of the country are completely impassable for the majority of these months. Our vehicles are designed to be used on roads, or prepared tracks, away from this you want to have a good recovery vehicle handy.
    For the rest of the year, venturing off these roads and tracks can also be a hazard. The mountans are boggy after a heavy shower. Once the sod is broken you are struggling with wheels.
    During the summer months, we frequently have periods of heavy rain which leaves most of the country flooded. Your 4x4 or 6x6 may get through, depending on your intake position, but in deep floods there is always the danger of striking submerged obstacles.

    This latest emergency has seen the DF heroically provide all wheel drive vehicles for use of the emergency services. However on many occasions even these have to be pulled from the ditch, mostly by agricultural vehicles.
    So it isn't practical to have the DF in tractors. However, there is an answer, a vehicle that is already in limited use in both the DF and Civil defence. Tried and tested in civilian and military service worldwide.


    Its as practical as a Nissan or Pajero (with greater capacity). Powered by either a Ford transit or Mercedes engine. Tried and tested worldwide. Rubber tracks so you can drive them on road, if you need to. Alternatively fits happily on the back of a DROPS.
    Also available as an armoured version if so required.

    One would think it had been designed for Ireland.
    How many would the DF need, and would they be realistic for day to day operations when the weather is not extreme, in terms of running costs and maintainence?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  7. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    The Jeep dealer didn't give me THAT as an optional extra
    US€25K for the set, apparently. V6 engine SUV only.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  9. #6
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I do tend to agree but what conventional use do we put them to? Not a FFR

    It’s an APC so do we buy enough for an few APC Coys? Use it in Supp Coys etc ?

    Every military in the world does use 4x4 - 8x8 in the same way as us

    Or course the other thing is why don’t councils, CD, emergency services, ESB Networks, etc etc get them?

  10. #7
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    Warthog has similar configuration, performance and apparently are being sold cheap(ish) by the Brits, just saying.

  11. #8
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    DCD has 1 x BV206

    The Arty have BV206s with Giraffe radars (we could just buy some troop/cargo pods for them (assuming they are interchangeable (not sure if they are)))

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  13. #9
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    US€25K for the set, apparently. V6 engine SUV only.
    The missus would kill me! Also, the Jeep engine isn’t big enough on this one (but the straight six 4L one I used to run could have handled them, I’m sure!)
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  14. #10
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Tractors are less than ideal as they tend to be top heavy by nature.

    Given how the Royal Marines have employed the Bv 206 family in all sorts of terrain to include deserts, and how our weather based events have become more disruptive there is an argument to be made for a half dozen 206s to be at least procured and held in reserve for these almost annual events.

    Who operates them is another question, but you can argue that after you buy them.
    Time for another break I think......

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  16. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    DCD has 1 x BV206
    They had at least two...

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  18. #12
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    Whatever about all terrain I notice that precious few vehicles out and about during the snow has front mounted winches.

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  20. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Tractors are less than ideal as they tend to be top heavy by nature.

    Given how the Royal Marines have employed the Bv 206 family in all sorts of terrain to include deserts, and how our weather based events have become more disruptive there is an argument to be made for a half dozen 206s to be at least procured and held in reserve for these almost annual events.

    Who operates them is another question, but you can argue that after you buy them.
    You can find me at the front of the queue

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  22. #14
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    DCD still has to transport them on the back of a truck / low loader / whatever

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  24. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    DCD still has to transport them on the back of a truck / low loader / whatever


    Sure, but this was forecast, Ophelia was forecast, floods are routinely forecast etc. - so they could be pre-positioned in the run up to the event in the nearest DF barracks, Garda station etc.

    It would make sense imo to have a small number located around the country anyway - who pays for it, who operates them, that's another matter.

    But I take the point, if there aren't enough DROPS vehicles to transport them in the first place... it'd be a foolish investment.



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  26. #16
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    Might be something to look at in relation to the new EU RescEU program that's being proposed?

  27. #17
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    Pym some posters were suggesting getting these instead of 4 × 4.

  28. #18
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    If just being looked at from the point of view of ATCA, then would Civil Defence not be the best people to have them in the first place?

    Edited.
    Last edited by Flamingo; 4th March 2018 at 17:20.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  30. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    If just being looked at from the point of view of ATCP, then would Civil Defence not be the best people to have them in the first place?
    ATCA

    Might be better for councils giving that some councils won’t even request CD support

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  32. #20
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ATCA

    Might be better for councils giving that some councils won’t even request CD support
    Fair point, but would those same councils be prepared to pay to buy and maintain the vehicles?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  33. #21
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    It would appear that possibly the 2 modules are permanently/semi-permanently linked

    http://www.bv206.co.uk/index.php/mod...t-lock-version

    But get this with troop/cargo/ambulance/fire bodies and we’d be laughing (well Emergency services would be)
    Last edited by DeV; 4th March 2018 at 18:25.

  34. #22
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Or the multi-lift version with tankers etc as well

  35. #23
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    The CD use them on a DROPS type vehicle possibly because they have so few BV206. However nothing stopping this vehicle from travelling by road when required. Rubber tracks and low ground pressure (11 tonne vehicle) leave valmost no impact on any surface.The drivetrain from front to rear are permanently connected. It is an articulated vehicle the same as an Earthmoving dumper or a Mechanical wheelbarrow like was stolen In tallaght during Friday nights looting..
    Maintenance would be no more complicated than a standard Transit van.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  37. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I do tend to agree but what conventional use do we put them to? Not a FFR

    It’s an APC so do we buy enough for an few APC Coys? Use it in Supp Coys etc ?

    Every military in the world does use 4x4 - 8x8 in the same way as us

    Or course the other thing is why don’t councils, CD, emergency services, ESB Networks, etc etc get them?
    Dublin CD have two based beside Tallaght Fire Station

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  39. #25
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    https://youtu.be/GHeF5n0s09c These things do make a lot of sense. pity about the music at the beginning

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