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  1. #1
    BQMS
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    Brits to sell off Iveco Panthers

    http://www.janes.com/article/79677/u...-panther-fleet

    Surely out of over 400 vehicles we could pick up a dozen or so decent ones at a good price. Can they be much worse than our LTAVs and would be handy for our hard border patrolling

  2. #2
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    Why are they getting rid?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Why are they getting rid?
    I'd bet a combination of being shagged from use, not fitting the future force plan, and the never ending one of budget issues.

  5. #4
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  7. #5
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    What is it about LTAVs that makes them all garage queens?
    We should all have gone with Mowag Eagle....
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    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  8. #6
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I’m not 100% but again we are the only users of this model. Based on a proven design but it’s different

  9. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I’m not 100% but again we are the only users of this model. Based on a proven design but it’s different
    Wasn't there something in one of the vehicle threads here about them all being nearly "bespoke" with differences even between vehicles in wiring etc?

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  11. #8
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    What is it about LTAVs that makes them all garage queens?
    We should all have gone with Mowag Eagle....
    They, the LTAV are inconsistent, underpowered and really really unpopular. Rumor is that when overseas they don't leave camp. There's no standardisation in construction, one LTAV might require a 13mm Wrench for a part of the engine, the one next to it might need a 16mm Wrench for the seemingly same part.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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  13. #9
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    Was the iveco considered when we ended up with the RG? I know it was one of the contenders for the initial (cancelled) competition.
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  14. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Was the iveco considered when we ended up with the RG? I know it was one of the contenders for the initial (cancelled) competition.
    The 2nd competition came down to RG32 LTV, Iveco LMV and MOWAG Eagle 4

    None of the vehicles offered for the first attempt were found to meet the criteria AFAIK

    Not 100% sure but I don’t think it got beyond the stage of a paperwork review of the offers

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  16. #11
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    well, having bespoke equipment is not new to the DF so it appears to be a case of just getting on with it and making them work, if it means reducing them to a previous standard/modification state to do so.

  17. #12
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    What is it about LTAVs that makes them all garage queens?
    We should all have gone with Mowag Eagle....
    I was in Rome last week and the Italians have the these deployed all over the place along with Landrover 90s,
    Quite small in comparison to the beast that is the RG32, but very self contained and compact. Not sure are they a pure LTAV look more like an interim between the likes of the Pajero and a fully fledged LTAV
    Time for another break I think......

  18. #13
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    But for use within the island a vehicle that size maybe more useful

  19. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apc View Post
    But for use within the island a vehicle that size maybe more useful
    The less vehicle types the better!

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  21. #15
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The less vehicle types the better!
    The RG32 have no pratical use beyond overseas deployment and there are possibly occasions where the Pajeros are less than suitable, but I do agree with a reduction in types...so bin the RG32s
    Time for another break I think......

  22. #16
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    The RG32 have no pratical use beyond overseas deployment and there are possibly occasions where the Pajeros are less than suitable, but I do agree with a reduction in types...so bin the RG32s
    The RG32M LTVs (LTAVs are of limited use anywhere) and the Panther is in the same boat

  23. #17
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    i would imagine size wise the Panther would be more practical domestically while presumably the RG 32 more suited to overseas, otherwise we just rely on Mowags. Are they not overkill in most domestic situations

  24. #18
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apc View Post
    i would imagine size wise the Panther would be more practical domestically while presumably the RG 32 more suited to overseas, otherwise we just rely on Mowags. Are they not overkill in most domestic situations
    There is not much in the difference size wise,having seen both in action on narrow Lebanese roads.As for practicality at home. In what role?? LTAV's are overkill for most ATCP taskings.
    For moving troops around they are limited by their size.
    If we need to move troops under armour than Mowag is still the way to go.Even domestically.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  26. #19
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Would they be of use to AGS? Either armed response, or patrolling some of the more interesting areas after dark? Obviously with weapons removed an painted a cuddly colour.
    Last edited by Flamingo; 6th May 2018 at 13:11.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  27. #20
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Would they be of use to AGS? Either armed response, or patrolling some of the more interesting areas after dark? Obviously with weapons removed an painted a cuddly colour.
    When we had to rely on confiscated armoured BMW's to kit out the ERU after the Garda Inspectorate recommended getting armoured vehicles for use in Barricade situations what do you think?

    The head shed in AGS would have a shitfit at the very idea of Guards going around in Military vehicles.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  29. #21
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    At present AGS has no need (thank god) for mine protected armoured cars.
    And long may that continue.
    The PSNI only hang on to their Tangi because they had them when there was no other way to get around overtly, safely, but they are being phased out when they reach end of life.
    The Pangolin that replaces them is a public order vehicle, because uniquely, nordie rioters still have access to high velocity firearms and explosives.
    Mainland UK police forces have also started using Pangolin, in response to the threat from islamic terrorism.
    But you won't see the UK police driving around in military armoured vehicles either.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  31. #22
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Fair enough. I was more thinking that if they were going cheap (stuff from Whithams is usually priced to sell), would there be a role for them, even if AGS didn’t need all the whistles and bells.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  32. #23
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    They are mechanical/electrical an issue!

  33. #24
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    There is not much in the difference size wise,
    The RG32 has a bigger profile heightwise than the Panther, I took the attached photo last week in Rome

    DSC00998.JPG
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 6th May 2018 at 22:12.
    Time for another break I think......

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  35. #25
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    I was thinking if we had to go back to border patrols they might more suited but in fairness I forgot that from time to time we do need to move personnel under fire at home so Mowags it is.
    Last edited by apc; 7th May 2018 at 08:51.

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