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  • Hate to say it but I told you so.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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    • The organisational structure makes no mention of a 'Minister of State for the Department of Defence', only the 'Minister for Defence'. Would this signify that there is an intention to restore the department to a full minister rather than his lackey?
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
        The organisational structure makes no mention of a 'Minister of State for the Department of Defence', only the 'Minister for Defence'. Would this signify that there is an intention to restore the department to a full minister rather than his lackey?
        There is a full Minister. He is also An Taoiseach so therefore a junior is required

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        • There is a need at this point for an administrative referendum to remove the absolute restriction on the number of full ministers from the constitution.

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          • Originally posted by expat01 View Post
            There is a need at this point for an administrative referendum to remove the absolute restriction on the number of full ministers from the constitution.
            I disagree. What's needed to is for current Ministers, Junior Ministers and Secretary Generals to be held accountable for their departments lack of performance.


            When the DoDs website still lists Simon Coveney as the Minister for Defence it tells a lot about the Departments (lack of) professionalism, competence and work ethic.

            Last edited by TangoSierra; 23 May 2018, 09:08.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by expat01 View Post
              There is a need at this point for an administrative referendum to remove the absolute restriction on the number of full ministers from the constitution.
              No, all that happens then is the government create ministers for special interest groups to appease their coalition partners.
              Minister for bogland
              Minister for feminism
              Minister for driving home from the pub after pints because you live in rural kerry.
              Minister for private schools.
              Minister for not paying tax and getting away with it.
              etc

              New portfolio have been created already which has pushed the Defence post aside. Strange that all the other departments couldn't manage without 2 ministers to do a job that one used to do, as well as having a junior minister, while defence has an absentee minister with a junior who pretends he is full minister.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

              Comment


              • If Agriculture had been dealt with in this fashion ( and Ag's main function is to hand out grants, 95% of it should be in a SUSI type organization) there would have been blood on the streets.
                "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  There is a full Minister. He is also An Taoiseach so therefore a junior is required
                  I'm well aware of that but it seems that the junior minister is actually running it with no declared interest from the Taoiseach
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                  Comment


                  • Even when Enda held the position he actually answered PQs when it suited him.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Not sure what having a Minister or Minister for State has to do with PDF retention though.

                      The organisation has changed so much since the reorg that unfortunately a lot of exers wouldnt recognise it. Personally I see the change to the promotion system as being responsible for a lot of it. Too much responsibility put on the individual to chase points, the perceived constant need to do courses or move to the next job to tick a box. No loyalty can be shown by NCOs as unit commanders can show none back
                      Last edited by Fantasia; 23 May 2018, 19:23.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                        Not sure what having a Minister or Minister for State has to do with PDF retention though.

                        The organisation has changed so much since the reorg that unfortunately a lot of exers wouldnt recognise it. Personally I see the change to the promotion system as being responsible for a lot of it. Too much responsibility put on the individual to chase points, the perceived constant need to do courses or move to the next job to tick a box. No loyalty can be shown by NCOs as unit commanders can show none back
                        100% Agree. Unit loyalty has been eroded.The NCO Corps in unit used to be the keepers of a units traditions.Now that is gone with the dodo.Out of my units SNCO's 7 are from outside of the unit.Worse again they are all from the same former unit so there is a group think starting to set in.And not in a good way either. Of course the flip side is they all have one foot in the unit and the other is itching to get back from whence they came.
                        Not good for the DF in the long run or my unit.
                        Now if that's my place what are other locations like.Much the same I reckon.
                        One good thing about the new system though is the cross polination and networking across the Brigade and wider DF. Chances are if you need something there is someone in another unit who has served in yours.

                        My solution? Keep the merit based promotion system but tweak it to give points for unit loyalty, and offer appointments not only on vacancies but on projected vacancies.Also we need to close the Infantry loophole to keep those damned lesser Corps out!!
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                        Comment


                        • I would scrap it for Cpl to Sgt, go back to the old way where a unit can reward their loyalty. In certain locations, the list is already depleted for Cpls anyway.

                          I would also very much restrict the points available for courses. Lads spending 15 - 20 weeks a year doing course are actually doing more harm to unit strengths than good.

                          I am surprised that PDFORRA are happy with the current set up.

                          Comment


                          • I would scrap it for Cpl to Sgt, go back to the old way where a unit can reward their loyalty.
                            No.The current system keeps promotions out of the hands of Units for good reason.Too many redresses in the past due to Favoritism.


                            I would also very much restrict the points available for courses. Lads spending 15 - 20 weeks a year doing course are actually doing more harm to unit strengths than good.
                            Agree. Award points for things like doing the Hotel instead for example or instructing at unit level on Recruit + 2-3* Cses.


                            I am surprised that PDFORRA are happy with the current set up.
                            They're not.
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • Not sure what having a Minister or Minister for State has to do with PDF retention though
                              .

                              Minister for state spends to much time dodging straight questions and offering meaningful answers and the individual in question is absolutely loathsome and has hung the CoS out to dry , while the actual minister, An Taoiseach dosen't give a shit.

                              So to my mind how can you expect positive action when the actual minister is missing from the job and the minister of state is a weasel.?

                              Personally I see the change to the promotion system as being responsible for a lot of it. Too much responsibility put on the individual to chase points, the perceived constant need to do courses or move to the next job to tick a box
                              Careers ahead of loyalty to units. Should it be a prerequisite that a specific amount of time is spent at particular units and that course are unavailable without meeting that criteria?
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                              Comment


                              • Hotel is only available to some though.

                                A lot of very experienced NCOs have gone over the last few years as promotion was no longer a possibility.


                                How do you encourage unit loyalty in the current system? I am struggling to think of how to retain some of ours

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