Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

PDF retention

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Should it be a prerequisite that a specific amount of time is spent at particular units and that course are unavailable without meeting that criteria?
    You get points for serving in a unit on detachment for 90 days or greater. So lads from Cork or Limerick going to the Cadet school for a year(That's right a whole year) get the same as the guy from 1 MIC or 1 ACS going to the other side of the camp.
    Also we have unit hopping going on in the DFTC and the Brigade HQ Locations.
    People can go from unit to unit collecting points and not move outside their home station and the lads form single unit locations either move away to collect points or fall behind in the race.
    Total bollocks.
    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by apod View Post
      You get points for serving in a unit on detachment for 90 days or greater. So lads from Cork or Limerick going to the Cadet school for a year(That's right a whole year) get the same as the guy from 1 MIC or 1 ACS going to the other side of the camp.
      Also we have unit hopping going on in the DFTC and the Brigade HQ Locations.
      People can go from unit to unit collecting points and not move outside their home station and the lads form single unit locations either move away to collect points or fall behind in the race.
      Total bollocks.
      I'm not sure if this is still the case in the UK, but it was a few years ago where Cadets were 'sponsored' by units prior to entry and would have to spend 'x' amount with that unit up to a specific rank before being able to move on. Again the objective being to keep people in units and make sure that the development of their careers is beneficial to the unit as well as them selves.

      The same could be made to apply to NCOs where if you are sent on an NCOs course from unit 'a' you are obliged to spend 'x' a mount of years with that unit before moving up a rank or indeed transferring to a nother unit.

      This could improve cohesion between the ranks which seems to be sadly lacking according to some of the posts here. If officers are working for their men as opposed to twaddling off on their own career path jumping between post and appointments, it could solve some issues.

      Again reading between the lines someone in the DF seems to have adopted promotional models around 'lean' processes and while the have merit in some applications, eveidently its not working for the masses in the DF.

      Promotion on merit, plus ability as opposed to filling required posts and academic intellect was always the way in the DF,

      It would seem the system is badly broken, but those who have benefited from the change are hardly going to admit that.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
        Hotel is only available to some though.

        A lot of very experienced NCOs have gone over the last few years as promotion was no longer a possibility.


        How do you encourage unit loyalty in the current system? I am struggling to think of how to retain some of ours
        Perhaps a system where you accrue point the longer you stay in a unit?? To discourage the people who only move to get promoted then have one foot out the door the whole time they are in situ and the minute a vacancy comes up back in their old location they are gone like shit off a shovel.

        I know one guy who, when the Bks was closed, moved to another unit closer to his home location rather than move back to Bn HQ.No unit loyalty there.
        Of course he had no problem then coming back into the fold once a promotion opened up back in his old unit. The kicker was that another vacancy soon opened up at his new rank level in the Bks he had ran off to so he legged it again and ended up blocking a guy who was originally from that unit ,and who had to leave to get promoted,getting back!!

        The new system makes a mockery of the so called DF values of selflessness and integrity.
        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

        Comment


        • But at the same time if he can’t afford to put petrol in the car... to get to the new unit loc?


          My understanding (could be very simplistic) is that you apply for the rank to be promoted to (not the location, unit or vacancy) am I right?

          How does that work for inter-corps and tech promotions?
          So you could have a new Sqn Sgt who has spend all their career in Ordnance for example or a new infantry Sgt going into the AC ?

          Comment


          • No Dev you are not correct.

            You apply for promotion, stating what units / locations you are willing to serve.

            You can only be promoted into an appointment that you are qualified to fill. The list of appointments & qualifications is listed in Annex XYZ to Admin Instr Part 10.

            In the example you cited, the Sqn Sgt appointment would have the Cavalry Standard Course listed and you can only do that as a cav NCO.

            The problem is with line vacancies in Inf Bns, HQs and in a lot of cases the Air Corps where everyone seems to run to given half a chance

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
              No Dev you are not correct.

              You apply for promotion, stating what units / locations you are willing to serve.

              You can only be promoted into an appointment that you are qualified to fill. The list of appointments & qualifications is listed in Annex XYZ to Admin Instr Part 10.

              In the example you cited, the Sqn Sgt appointment would have the Cavalry Standard Course listed and you can only do that as a cav NCO.

              The problem is with line vacancies in Inf Bns, HQs and in a lot of cases the Air Corps where everyone seems to run to given half a chance
              Army unit commanders are very generous when it comes to approving a transfer for some of the dregs which have transferred into the AC. That goes for officers and enlisted.

              They don't call it a retirement home for nothing.

              The problem is when the said dreg goes for promotion, they generally have overseas service and multiple courses which are not available to AC members by virtue of the fact that they are AC line. So they end up being shafted in the promotion competition while army guys come in and put the feet up.
              Last edited by Chuck; 24 May 2018, 21:18.

              Comment


              • What does any young man or woman want out of a career in the Forces?

                In my opinion...

                1. Adventure...the opportunity to prove themselves.

                2. Travel.

                3. A sense of being part of something they and their country can be proud of.

                4. Reasonably good pay and conditions.

                5. A decent pension.

                6. Knowing that they and their family will be looked after.

                7. Not being fcuked around.

                8. Learning life skills which will be useful when they leave.

                9. Within the rank system a mutual respect which goes down as well as up.

                10. Being able to walk into a bar to admiring looks from the local Ladies...and jealous glares from their unworthy boyfriends.

                I've kind of been following this thread...the problem you are discussing is also prevalent in the British Army...lots leaving and we're struggling to recruit.

                Friend of mine was in recruiting 2008-2010...he tells me he literally had queues of people looking to join as Op Herrick was in full swing...see my first point.
                'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

                Comment


                • ERROR 4.0.4Something  Went Wrong The page you are looking for was moved, removed, renamed or might never existed. Please Click on Home below to return to the main menu. HOME


                  Perfect example

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                    Not sure what having a Minister or Minister for State has to do with PDF retention though.
                    The Minister directs the DoD based on courses of action proposed by staff.

                    All the policies of the DoD over the past 20 years have served to erode pay and conditions of the DF.

                    Pay has been slashed, any worthwhile retirement for post 2013 contracts is gone. Allowances have been shredded. Housing support is non existent. Yet tasks and roles have expanded with continued cuts to overall establishment. Yet the DoD see fit to hire another Assistant Sec Gen appointment for HR!

                    DOD have pulled AC out of participation for Hotblade Ex (I know of two pilots who left because of that decision alone).
                    DOD refuse to open participation in EU Joint Units / EDA.
                    DOD pulled participation in EU Battlegroup Exercises in Germany.

                    All the while the Military Authorities swing up the arms onto retirement on pre 2004 pensions and lump sum bonuses for good behavior!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                      No Dev you are not correct.

                      You apply for promotion, stating what units / locations you are willing to serve.

                      You can only be promoted into an appointment that you are qualified to fill. The list of appointments & qualifications is listed in Annex XYZ to Admin Instr Part 10.

                      In the example you cited, the Sqn Sgt appointment would have the Cavalry Standard Course listed and you can only do that as a cav NCO.

                      The problem is with line vacancies in Inf Bns, HQs and in a lot of cases the Air Corps where everyone seems to run to given half a chance
                      Thanks

                      Do you interview for the rank as opposed to the vacancy (ie if you want Pln Sgt 7 Inf, Sgt Instr Mil Col and Clerk Sgt Tpt Gp you only go to 1 interview board)?


                      With regard to courses, would a fairer way be just to give points for courses that as essential and desirable for the vacancy (I know my unit have these in standing orders and you would see them sometimes for vacancies in ROs)?

                      So the Clerk Sgt gets 5 points for Ord Rm Sgt’s Cse, 5 for Ord Rm Cpl’s Cse, 5 for PMS Cse, but 0 for Sniper Instrs Cse

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        Thanks

                        Do you interview for the rank as opposed to the vacancy (ie if you want Pln Sgt 7 Inf, Sgt Instr Mil Col and Clerk Sgt Tpt Gp you only go to 1 interview board)?


                        With regard to courses, would a fairer way be just to give points for courses that as essential and desirable for the vacancy (I know my unit have these in standing orders and you would see them sometimes for vacancies in ROs)?

                        So the Clerk Sgt gets 5 points for Ord Rm Sgt’s Cse, 5 for Ord Rm Cpl’s Cse, 5 for PMS Cse, but 0 for Sniper Instrs Cse
                        You sit 1 interview for all appointments qualified for a period of 18 months. Your proposal is unworkable. What you are proposing was the old way, where you spend half your life sitting on interview boards
                        Last edited by Fantasia; 25 May 2018, 08:17.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                          You sit 1 interview for all appointments qualified for a period of 18 months. Your proposal is unworkable. What you are proposing was the old way, where you spend half your life sitting on interview boards
                          .
                          No no not proposing a board for each

                          I’m proposing that courses points would only be counted for relevant courses and/or weighted.
                          .

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            .
                            No no not proposing a board for each

                            I’m proposing that courses points would only be counted for relevant courses and/or weighted.
                            .
                            Still unworkable. That would have a huge admin burden on EPMO

                            Comment


                            • well, the AC's version of retention is bonding techs for the cost of aircraft Type courses and in the case of joining contracts, you owe them money if you leave early. Anyone joining or seeking to join should ask about bonding before you sign any paper.

                              Comment


                              • Service Committments for trainee tech schemes or external education have been around for decades and have actually come down in payback periods quite a lot. It has gone from 4 years per 1 year of instruction to 1:1 in some categories

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X