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Thread: PDF retention

  1. #26
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    I think simple stuff like longer term HR planning would be very much appreciated. Stop trying to fill appointments 6 weeks out from deployment. We know we are going to be filling appointments, fill them 1 year out, that way people can plan their lives, units can plan contingency and even if you are mandatory selected, you have a year to put your shit in place as opposed.to getting nabbed during the MRE

    Kinda an Officers only problem though isn't it. No less important but solving that isn't going to stop Paddy the Pte from throwing in the towel.

    What are you and your fellows coming up with to help enlisted retention??

    Sorry for the pointed question but as our management I think it is a valid question.

    In my units case our boss brought back the Wednesday afternoon sports parade.AFTER he did away with the Friday afternoon Skeleton staff policy that a previous boss had brought in.

    One of those policies meant lads could collect their kids from school and not have to pay childcare at least one day a week.The other had them kicking a ball.

    Good thinking there
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    I think simple stuff like longer term HR planning would be very much appreciated. Stop trying to fill appointments 6 weeks out from deployment. We know we are going to be filling appointments, fill them 1 year out, that way people can plan their lives, units can plan contingency and even if you are mandatory selected, you have a year to put your shit in place as opposed.to getting nabbed during the MRE
    Stop trying to fill 10 appointments with 1 person.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Kinda an Officers only problem though isn't it. No less important but solving that isn't going to stop Paddy the Pte from throwing in the towel.

    What are you and your fellows coming up with to help enlisted retention??

    Sorry for the pointed question but as our management I think it is a valid question.

    In my units case our boss brought back the Wednesday afternoon sports parade.AFTER he did away with the Friday afternoon Skeleton staff policy that a previous boss had brought in.

    One of those policies meant lads could collect their kids from school and not have to pay childcare at least one day a week.The other had them kicking a ball.

    Good thinking there
    The Wed Sports parade thing is something that the COS is pushing. It wasnt a unit level matter.

    I am fortunate in that in recent years all of my appointments have been with relatively small groups so it is easier to be flexible and look after people when they have been looking after the DF.

    Being able to predict who of any rank is going overseas and on courses in 2019 would allow people the time and space to sort out their home lives.

    How many times were the cooks, mowag crewmen, fitters etc selected after the MRE? It means they get shafted, the overseas unit suffers during formup, home units are suddenly down people that they had planned to use for other tasks etc.

    How many times have the list for courses come out the Fri before the course starts? Someone expected to upsticks to the DFTC for a month needs more notice than that. Someone going on a PNCO Cse in Sept should already know so they can prepare themselves and their family and so that their boss can find and train a replacement storeman, clerk, driver etc.

    As for officers getting posted to opposite corners of the country, happens every week, seen as part of the job and is one reason why people are running out the gate even at Lt Col level

    As for what I am doing to help retention for the Pte soldier, reward their loyalty as best I can within my own resources and capabilities, stop people putting obstacles in the way when saying yes is as easy as saying no, make the job something that people want to come to every week and not something they are dreading.
    Last edited by Fantasia; 8th May 2018 at 11:44.

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  5. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Stop trying to fill 10 appointments with 1 person.
    Not sure I understand this point. Sorry

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    Small things matter. Skeleton staff on a Friday can be very useful for the troops to get their domestic life sorted but it also allows the CS to get his house in order for the following week without 100 interuptions.

    APOD, How far ahead can a Pte soldier in your location plan his duties?

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  8. #31
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Small things matter. Skeleton staff on a Friday can be very useful for the troops to get their domestic life sorted but it also allows the CS to get his house in order for the following week without 100 interuptions.

    APOD, How far ahead can a Pte soldier in your location plan his duties?
    A week if he/she is lucky. With the amount of TRR's coming in sometimes less.

    And yes.I do know the CoS pushed the whole Sports parade thing.My point was that it's reintroduction was lauded as a great thing,but when seen longside taking away something that ACTUALLY benefited the troops it was seen by them as a joke.

    I do agree with the courses thing.But telling a guy/girl on a friday they are going away on a monday is bad man management.Alot of it stems from Brigade G7's though.I have also seen course notifications come from Brigade at 1500 with a return date of 0930 the following morning.How is anybody who might be vaguely interested in applying able to see that notification if they are resting off or on leave for example.The CS doesn't have crystal ball to know each and everyone's intentions IOT to notify them.

    As for officers being moved from pillar to post.I sympathise.I really do,but is that not what was made clear to ye when ye signed up as being part and parcel of the job.Are there not allowances to compensate?? If I get sent to the DFTC on a course and want to be able to come home mid week to see my kids I have to jump through ten hoops just to be able to claim PTR.If not it is drop and collect on day one and the last day by the DF and stuck in the DFTC Monday to Friday where there is nothing going on after 1630.

    I understand things have been tight the last few years but their is a perceived inequity when it comes to the likes of PTR and Sub and the ease and difficulties which both commissioned and enlisted experience when claiming them.

    We need to stop expecting people to subsidise the job out of their own pockets.For example. I can't count the amount of young lads/lasses in my unit who are going around in non issue boots day to day now. Not field boots which are only worn on Exercise and which traditionally we gave leeway to.

    Barrack Boots.

    Why.Because the current issue system doesn't work and it takes months to get kit. Boots are falling off lads feet and they have no choice. An issue system that was brought in to save money but in the long run saves nothing as the CQ's running the stores kept their account holders allowances as they were personal to holder and also increased fuel costs as the local stores were moved back to Bde Hq's.

    On top of that lads who went out and bought boots may soon be completely out of pocket as the rumour is we are changing to brown boots later this year!! Of course NCO's cant say "Wait.Don't buy" as all we have to go on is rumours as our internal communications are a Joke.Even WITH IKON as the info isn't posted!!

    Sorry for the rant, but after the last few years my tolerance level for Bovine scatology has dropped through the floor. I think their is a massive disconnect between what is happening in soldiers lives and what management at the top see. Perhaps it is high time we got that Sgt Major of the DF off the ground to bring the message home to the General staff.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  10. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Kinda an Officers only problem though isn't it. No less important but solving that isn't going to stop Paddy the Pte from throwing in the towel.

    What are you and your fellows coming up with to help enlisted retention??

    Sorry for the pointed question but as our management I think it is a valid question.

    In my units case our boss brought back the Wednesday afternoon sports parade.AFTER he did away with the Friday afternoon Skeleton staff policy that a previous boss had brought in.

    One of those policies meant lads could collect their kids from school and not have to pay childcare at least one day a week.The other had them kicking a ball.

    Good thinking there

    It effects the troops as well, i’d Imagine that the more notice someone gets be it officer or private the better

    It isn’t pay related (pay is the major issue), but there are a lot of other issues that causes dissatisfaction and effects retention.

    Also if it effects officer retention it effects the troops.

    If the Pln Comdr is around, the Pln Sgt’s workload may change (hopefully for the positive)
    If there are more officers around, then 667s should become more related to reality and be completed to an officer who has met the soldier previously (or at least there is a higher chance of it)
    If there are more officers around, there should be a higher possibility of proper management of other ranks careers

    The reverse is also true (eg if there is a Pln Sgt then the Cpls and Pln Comd workloads change etc etc)

  11. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    A week if he/she is lucky. With the amount of TRR's coming in sometimes less.

    And yes.I do know the CoS pushed the whole Sports parade thing.My point was that it's reintroduction was lauded as a great thing,but when seen longside taking away something that ACTUALLY benefited the troops it was seen by them as a joke.
    The problem in a lot of units will be the lack of personnel to even have a 5 a side game

    [

    I do agree with the courses thing.But telling a guy/girl on a friday they are going away on a monday is bad man management.Alot of it stems from Brigade G7's though.I have also seen course notifications come from Brigade at 1500 with a return date of 0930 the following morning.How is anybody who might be vaguely interested in applying able to see that notification if they are resting off or on leave for example.The CS doesn't have crystal ball to know each and everyone's intentions IOT to notify them.
    Indeed, it doesnt help anyone with the current system.

    As for officers being moved from pillar to post.I sympathise.I really do,but is that not what was made clear to ye when ye signed up as being part and parcel of the job.
    Same arguament could be said for a lot of things across the DF. Doesnt make it any easier. If you are not in the Dublin / Kildare area it is impossible to have stability. The notion that someone just turns around and says to leave them in Finner or Limerick as they are opting out of promotion doesnt happen anymore.

    Are there not allowances to compensate?? If I get sent to the DFTC on a course and want to be able to come home mid week to see my kids I have to jump through ten hoops just to be able to claim PTR.If not it is drop and collect on day one and the last day by the DF and stuck in the DFTC Monday to Friday where there is nothing going on after 1630.
    Same rules apply

    I understand things have been tight the last few years but their is a perceived inequity when it comes to the likes of PTR and Sub and the ease and difficulties which both commissioned and enlisted experience when claiming them.
    Sounds like a local leadership matter

  12. #34
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It effects the troops as well, i’d Imagine that the more notice someone gets be it officer or private the better

    It isn’t pay related (pay is the major issue), but there are a lot of other issues that causes dissatisfaction and effects retention.

    Also if it effects officer retention it effects the troops.

    If the Pln Comdr is around, the Pln Sgt’s workload may change (hopefully for the positive)
    If there are more officers around, then 667s should become more related to reality and be completed to an officer who has met the soldier previously (or at least there is a higher chance of it)
    If there are more officers around, there should be a higher possibility of proper management of other ranks careers

    The reverse is also true (eg if there is a Pln Sgt then the Cpls and Pln Comd workloads change etc etc)
    Dev.You do realise that the only time we work in actual formed Platoons is when we deploy yeah?? Be that O/seas,The hotel,ATCP OPS or exercises.

    The rest of the time we are one big(not so much anymore) Company where the OC and CS are the main men/women.Where Junior officers are only passing through after commissioning and before college.Captains are non existent and JNCO's are just going from one tasking to the next as decreed by the CS.
    667's are done by the OC with input from the CS if you are lucky and input from a Junior officer if you are not.Why? Because the CS knows you the Lt doesn't. Even at that it is getting to the stage where some in some units even the OC doesn't know you. I had three OC's in one year two years ago FFS.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  13. #35
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    The problem in a lot of units will be the lack of personnel to even have a 5 a side game
    Seriously?? I make a point about poor man management and you throw that back. I don't think the troops care if they have enough people to play footie.They DO care when a good CO gives them € 40-50 back in their pockets and a poor CO takes it away again!! C'mon.


    Same arguament could be said for a lot of things across the DF. Doesnt make it any easier. If you are not in the Dublin / Kildare area it is impossible to have stability. The notion that someone just turns around and says to leave them in Finner or Limerick as they are opting out of promotion doesnt happen anymore.
    You are not comparing like with like.The Pay that Officers are on vs Junior enlisted pay is not even close.Officers are well paid for the sacrifices they are expected to make.(Sorry I don't want to make this an Officer vs enlisted pissing contest but it's the truth)


    Same rules apply
    Honestly.Do Officers have any trouble getting PTR.Be honest now.


    Sounds like a local leadership matter
    Nope. Comes from much higher.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Seriously?? I make a point about poor man management and you throw that back. I don't think the troops care if they have enough people to play footie.They DO care when a good CO gives them € 40-50 back in their pockets and a poor CO takes it away again!! C'mon.




    You are not comparing like with like.The Pay that Officers are on vs Junior enlisted pay is not even close.Officers are well paid for the sacrifices they are expected to make.(Sorry I don't want to make this an Officer vs enlisted pissing contest but it's the truth)




    Honestly.Do Officers have any trouble getting PTR.Be honest now.



    Nope. Comes from much higher.
    It was your unit commander that decided to drop the local arrangement of an early burst on Fridays. But it is a catch 22. We cannot say we do not have enough troops for tasks and then send them home early losing 10% of the working week.

    Are there big pay differences? Yes there are but ultimately they are very different jobs. I would love to see everyone in the DF starting on 40k but thats never going to happen. So the local commanders must do what they can to aleviate the pressures on their troops.

    Officers do have the same difficulty getting PTR paid. It needs to be preapproved. Generally though if you can justify why mil tpt is not available or practical then you get approval. Again though preapproval needs you to know you are going somewhere before the day before.

    As for whether officers are well paid for the sacrifices they are required to make. That is a difficult one. Where do you set up house & home if you get moved every 2 years? Where do you educate your kids? The capt on 48k is having the same problems as the CQMS on 43k. Both have kids, both in their mid 30s, the CQMS though knows that he will never have to leave Cork if he doesnt want to. The Capt is in Limerick this year, Cork next and Galway the following. It is 6 of 1.

    I know SNCOs that didnt apply for the recent CFR course as they knew that the grass was not greener on the other side.

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  16. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Dev.You do realise that the only time we work in actual formed Platoons is when we deploy yeah?? Be that O/seas,The hotel,ATCP OPS or exercises.

    The rest of the time we are one big(not so much anymore) Company where the OC and CS are the main men/women.Where Junior officers are only passing through after commissioning and before college.Captains are non existent and JNCO's are just going from one tasking to the next as decreed by the CS.
    667's are done by the OC with input from the CS if you are lucky and input from a Junior officer if you are not.Why? Because the CS knows you the Lt doesn't. Even at that it is getting to the stage where some in some units even the OC doesn't know you. I had three OC's in one year two years ago FFS.
    I know..... and all that is part of the issue but can’t be addressed.


    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    You are not comparing like with like.The Pay that Officers are on vs Junior enlisted pay is not even close.Officers are well paid for the sacrifices they are expected to make.(Sorry I don't want to make this an Officer vs enlisted pissing contest but it's the truth).
    In fairness, I wouldn’t say they are - they are better compensated than other ranks but that isn’t difficult

    Neither other ranks or officers are paid enough when you look at their terms and conditions, the job/role, responsibility etc etc

  17. #38
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    Quite right under military law it is mutiny....but how applicable is military law when there is actual discrimination against one group because they are tied to military law ?

    If you take a look at some of the civil cases brought by members of the DF against the DF where military law was a consideration and the DF lost, if PDFORRA were to take a test case to disprove military law when it come to the right to industrial action and proper representation, I reckon you would have an above average chance.

    Remember contracts and oaths are only binding when they are lawful. Will full discrimination and contract law make interesting bed fellows.



    I think simple stuff like longer term HR planning would be very much appreciated. Stop trying to fill appointments 6 weeks out from deployment. We know we are going to be filling appointments, fill them 1 year out, that way people can plan their lives, units can plan contingency and even if you are mandatory selected, you have a year to put your shit in place as opposed.to getting nabbed during the M
    I get the feeling that HR management in the Army especially is adhoc to say the least, with structured rostering around roles being something that needs to be addressed.

    If you are working over capacity with reduced numbers no amount of HR reform will address this until you either shed roles or up the numbers. Given a lot or officer roles are performance assessed its difficult to see how shedding roles can be considered unless it happens from the top down.

    With the NS the big eye opener is always...unable to put ship to sea due to shortages or critical crew, it never officially happens because its a career killer..what would be the army equivalent?

    Until someone mid way up the chain has the bottle to pull the plug on something or something goes wrong, badly wrong no one takes notice.

    Dev mentioned something around the various employment acts being at the discretion of the Oireactheas for changing, this is not the case, it is the right of every citizen to have their concerns aired and brought to the attention of the oireacthas.....this is what representitive associations are for !
    Time for another break I think......

  18. #39
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Are there big pay differences? Yes there are but ultimately they are very different jobs. I would love to see everyone in the DF starting on 40k but thats never going to happen. So the local commanders must do what they can to aleviate the pressures on their troops
    .

    Heres a small thing that worked many years ago during a time where people had a very limited income due to short time working.

    The workers formed a co operative, total number about 200 people , the co operative was then entitled to access to a cash and carry and was able to buy the weekly shopping at discounted rates and pass on the discounts to the people who were short of cash.

    The employees couldn't buy directly but submitted lists of their weekly requirements which were then boxed up and sent out to them.

    Some thing that could be trialled at a location in a effort to reduce domestic costs.
    Time for another break I think......

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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    .

    Heres a small thing that worked many years ago during a time where people had a very limited income due to short time working.

    The workers formed a co operative, total number about 200 people , the co operative was then entitled to access to a cash and carry and was able to buy the weekly shopping at discounted rates and pass on the discounts to the people who were short of cash.

    The employees couldn't buy directly but submitted lists of their weekly requirements which were then boxed up and sent out to them.

    Some thing that could be trialled at a location in a effort to reduce domestic costs.
    I like the thinking outsude the box but it would be a non runner. It would need to be run on a similar manner as the DFCB but DOD would never allow it to be expanded. Its already been cut to the bone

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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    The idea of a P/X is an excellent one , especially if linked to existing contracts the DF had, and could be done on an Internet shopping basis and linked back to the individual soldier to avoid abuse.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    Just to show that retention is high on the priority list:

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/irelan...rd-470364.html


    Military bosses call for independent pay review board




    Tuesday, May 08, 2018
    Sean O’Riordan
    Defence Forces bosses want the Government to establish an independent pay review board, similar to ones in Britain and Australia, to curtail the exodus of highly trained personnel who are leaving for better wages and conditions elsewhere.


    LÉ Samuel Beckett and crew heading for the Mediterranean. Picture: Denis Minihane
    That is just one of 10 recommendations by senior officers to the Department of Defence, who say retention needs to be seriously addressed in the army, naval service, and air corps.

    They want a similar body set up to the British Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body. It provides independent advice to the British prime minister and minister for defence on pay and conditions, with particular emphasis that these are at least broadly comparable with civilian jobs.

    The Australians have the Defence Force Remuneration Tribunal, also an independent body, which determines the level of salaries and allowances for military personnel.


    A delegation from the British Armed Forces’ Pay Review Body had been invited to address a conference hosted by RACO (the organisation which represents Irish Defence Forces officers), held in Naas, Co Kildare, last October.

    The British delegation was forced to pull out at the last minute after the Department of Defence intervened to block their attendance at the conference.

    The Department of Defence told the British that any talks about pay should be on a government-to-government basis — a move criticised by senior RACO officials at the conference.

    The recommendation to set up an independent pay review body is contained in a report issued by Irish military top brass, which has been seen by the Irish Examiner.

    The report states that a review should also be carried out on current remuneration packages in the Defence Forces, to include pay and allowances.

    A number of allowances were slashed during the recession.

    Top brass want weekend security duty allowances restored to 2010 levels. They have also suggested that the same be done with Naval Service patrol allowances and overseas peace support allowances, which were also decreased eight years ago.

    During the Public Pay Service Stability Agreement, it emerged that “side deals” were done whereby gardaí, prison officers, and firefighters got rent allowance increases, but the Defence Forces were overlooked.

    In an effort to address the exodus of highly trained specialists in particular, Defence Forces leaders have called for special payments to be introduced.

    In particular, senior military staff are anxious to have these introduced to retain pilots, air traffic controllers, IT specialists, bomb disposal personnel, and army and naval service engineers.


    © Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved
    Last edited by Fantasia; 8th May 2018 at 13:57.

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  24. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Quite right under military law it is mutiny....but how applicable is military law when there is actual discrimination against one group because they are tied to military law ?

    If you take a look at some of the civil cases brought by members of the DF against the DF where military law was a consideration and the DF lost, if PDFORRA were to take a test case to disprove military law when it come to the right to industrial action and proper representation, I reckon you would have an above average chance.

    Remember contracts and oaths are only binding when they are lawful. Will full discrimination and contract law make interesting bed fellows.
    Ok so your argument is the Defence Acts are unconstitutional or violate EU law?

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0212/940141-pdforra/

    Until someone mid way up the chain has the bottle to pull the plug on something or something goes wrong, badly wrong no one takes notice.
    the AC has

    Dev mentioned something around the various employment acts being at the discretion of the Oireactheas for changing, this is not the case, it is the right of every citizen to have their concerns aired and brought to the attention of the oireacthas.....this is what representitive associations are for !
    Where is that written?

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  26. #44
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    I like the thinking outsude the box but it would be a non runner. It would need to be run on a similar manner as the DFCB but DOD would never allow it to be expanded. Its already been cut to the bone
    Could be run independently from the canteen board by a trust established from within units. It would need buy in from unit commanders to allow people to work at setting it up and running it, think Tesco shopping on line, where bulk orders are sent into Cash and Carrys and then broken down by people at unit level and collected from a central location. Could even be spouses etc working at it.

    But could be a non runner as well!

    Ok so your argument is the Defence Acts are unconstitutional or violate EU law?
    No my question was would a suitably qualified person be prepared to take the case that it could be inviolate of rights ! I'm not a barrister but if the case was to be made it would put the DF on a more level playing field.

    Where is that written
    You have the right to lobby your local politician to have bills raised the Dail.....its called democracy!
    Time for another break I think......

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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post



    You have the right to lobby your local politician to have bills raised the Dail.....its called democracy!
    GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service.

    You can however engage with them on things like social housing

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    Could be run independently from the canteen board by a trust established from within units. It would need buy in from unit commanders to allow people to work at setting it up and running it, think Tesco shopping on line,
    Fulfilled by Amazon if you can get the same discounts they get on food.

    GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service.
    PDFORRA RACO and RDFRA are allowed to do so in line with their allowed scopes of representation and appear before Oireachtas committees frequently.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  31. #47
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service.

    You can however engage with them on things like social housing
    But your wife and family can.

    GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service
    Which in itself is open to question given members of the RDF can serve as public representatives!
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 8th May 2018 at 16:41.
    Time for another break I think......

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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Only local authorities; we cannot be in the Oireachtas or act as MEPs ( Act 1954, s.48 point (6))


    ( all of which reminds me I must read the Act again , that 'voluntary service' PQ has me thinking)
    Last edited by trellheim; 8th May 2018 at 16:48.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    But your wife and family can.



    Which in itself is open to question given members of the RDF can serve as public representatives!
    Only as far as local representative level. Members of the RDF elected to any Dail, Seanad, President etc must resign their commission / discharge. There are at least 2 x former FCA / RDF officers (1 Junior Minister) and a scattering of ex enlisted

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  36. #50
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Only as far as local representative level. Members of the RDF elected to any Dail, Seanad, President etc must resign their commission / discharge. There are at least 2 x former FCA / RDF officers (1 Junior Minister) and a scattering of ex enlisted
    An ex PDF enlisted is a current member of the Seanad and Presidential hopeful

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