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Thread: PDF retention

  1. #76
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    The DOD tries to keep a tight control over who gets briefed and by whom on defence matters.

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  3. #77
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    There is a reason the Minister for Defence doesn't have a Military Assistant

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  5. #78
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    The Taoiseach has an ADC if I recall correctly.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  6. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Ropebag thats an interesting point , that side of the BA is a much bigger part and so is the media off the record side. This is something historically we are piss poor at I follow ASM and Dan Dailey on twitter they are certainly out and about quite a bit !
    Was the BA ASM not in the DFTC recently? He seems to get around quite a bit!

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  8. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bravo20 View Post
    The DOD tries to keep a tight control over who gets briefed and by whom on defence matters.
    And who thinks it's the job or Irish citizens, in whatever employment they find themselves, to facilitate their efforts?

    If I was going to be rudely blunt I might wonder if you get fcuk all because you ask for fcuk all. If you don't think you deserve better why should anyone else?

  9. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Was the BA ASM not in the DFTC recently? He seems to get around quite a bit!
    He was and he does. He does town halls with Ptes and JNCO's pretty much everywhere he goes. I like him, a lot, I think he's a fantastic bloke doing a brilliant job - he's had a big impact already and he's set the die for ASM's to be as challenging and outspoken as possible.

  10. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    The Taoiseach has an ADC if I recall correctly.
    He does, a Comdt. The President has a Col, Comdt and Capt

  11. #83
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    One could argue therefore that the Minister for Defence has a Military assistant
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  12. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    One could argue therefore that the Minister for Defence has a Military assistant
    no because the DOD control EVERYTHING that gets to the MfD. He doesn't get to see anything that those that set his agenda do not want him to see.

  13. #85
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Sigh... it was a smiley.... the Taoiseach is technically the Minister for Defence at the moment, PK is Minister of State with "Responsibility", therefore the Minister for Defence has a Military ADC or Assistant.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  14. #86
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    There is a reason the Minister for Defence doesn't have a Military Assistant
    that actually isn’t a bad idea, be it the ADC or a new appointment.


    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    If I was going to be rudely blunt I might wonder if you get fcuk all because you ask for fcuk all. If you don't think you deserve better why should anyone else?
    The DF do ask but they have to ask DoD

    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    He was and he does. He does town halls with Ptes and JNCO's pretty much everywhere he goes. I like him, a lot, I think he's a fantastic bloke doing a brilliant job - he's had a big impact already and he's set the die for ASM's to be as challenging and outspoken as possible.
    but does he have the power or is it window dressing?

    Yes he is pushing an open door but is an notice taken?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    no because the DOD control EVERYTHING that gets to the MfD. He doesn't get to see anything that those that set his agenda do not want him to see.
    On Defence policy/advise

    Not military policy/advise

  15. #87
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    The Taoiseach has an ADC if I recall correctly.
    More of a traditional post with ceremonial responsibilities and protocol as opposed to an actual policy advisor
    Time for another break I think......

  16. #88
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    More of a traditional post with ceremonial responsibilities and protocol as opposed to an actual policy advisor
    it was a smiley face geez guys
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  18. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post

    I just finished reading the Report of the PSPC 2017.The Defence sector part referenced the DoD/DPER submissions along with RACo. No mention of PDFORRAs.

    And why do you think that is.

    http://paycommission.gov.ie/submissi...r-submissions/

    Compare the submissions from RACO, ARCO and PDFORRA. The RA's are only as good as those they elect. What PDFORRA published was utter drivel and its membership should have a long hard look at who's running the RA on their behalf. A sixteen page submission, the majority of which was made by the ICTU. Heck, even ARCO had more of their own original content vs PDFORRAs copy and paste from the ICTU.

    RACO's tome in contrast ran to 246 pages, no wonder it was taken more seriously.
    Last edited by northie; 10th May 2018 at 08:07.

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  20. #90
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Ah lads I've just read PDFORRAs submission and RACO's . For fking shame ; how on earth can PDFORRA justify that kind of submission when you look at RACO's. that is awful . Wheres ARW allowance, duty money, MSA, sub and any of the rest . I'm neutral here and I've been an Pte and an NCO . I could have provided FEMPI, Bord Snip allowance, any of the Gleeson report backdrops and we have union folks in the RDF who'd have given a dig out if asked and thats just me .


    you only get one shot at this for the next 10 years !

    omg, omg.
    Last edited by trellheim; 10th May 2018 at 09:37.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  22. #91
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    It looks like the type of return you get when you ring a unit the day after a return was due and are told it is on the COs desk. An hour later you get some shite like that.

    RACOs runs to 200+ pages, PDFORRAs is about 3 pages if you take out all of the completely irrelevant ICTU Annex. Less if you take out the introduction & executive summary.

    Why has their submission got overtime and HRA hours?

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  24. #92
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    There is huge scope for improvements in the efficiency of admin (time saving, simplification, accuracy, timeliness, less RoW, etc etc).

    A bit of updating of procedures, DFRs and Admin Instrs.

    Leverage workflows in Sharepoint

    That would improve a lot of underlying issues
    Last edited by DeV; 10th May 2018 at 16:32.

  25. #93
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Lads calm your ovaries.That was the initial submission. The real meat and two veg was only just submitted and hasn't been published on that site yet and I am told it is a lot more in depth.
    Last edited by apod; 10th May 2018 at 21:48.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  27. #94
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    PDFORRA didn’t make a submission on the initial or pensions consultations

  28. #95
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    https://www.aldrimer.no/vil-ha-78-ny...kstra-brigade/

    Visual indication of the size of 3,500 troops on this photo of Norway's Nord Bde during Joint Reindeer 2018.

    Joint Reindeer 2018 was an Artic exercise involving 5000 troops, equivalent in size to Ireland's brigade forces combined
    Last edited by TangoSierra; 13th May 2018 at 20:00. Reason: Corrected count of troops in photo

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  30. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post


    https://www.aldrimer.no/vil-ha-78-ny...kstra-brigade/

    Visual indication of the size of the whole Irish Army today based on this photo of Norway's Nord Bde of circa 5500 troops
    About 3000 to 3500 in that photo

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  32. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
    About 3000 to 3500 in that photo
    Thanks for the correction. I was going off the press release from Joint Reindeer.

  33. #98
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    Any mileage in looking at GI-type Act: in general accummulated benefits for periods of service? Can't help but feel that non-pay benefits are the way to go for a lot of public sector jobs nowadays. Not right but, in truth, probably realistic. A guaranteed first year or foundation year on a degree or similar course would be a valuable benefit to the individual with wider social (social mobility) and economic (improved productivity) benefits. Further benefits with longer or some other form of service would be accummulated along the way.
    The place of the DF member may need to be seen a little wider in the context of a bouyant economy and it may be a wider benefit to the economy to have the State being able to pour well-qualified personnel intro the labour market and take the pain in relation to DF workforce planning. This, of course, means, that replenishment rather than retention becomes the guiding principle.
    An additional approach might be to look at widening the recruitment pool, perhaps by looking to Northern Ireland in a more systematic way and, more widely, to the EEA and the Commonwealth particularly South Africa where there are opportunities in the labour market amongst well-qualified personnel stuck on the wrong side of the affirmative action line. Not entirely soemthing that sits under retention but worth considering in a broader debate.
    Finally, no excuse for Ministers not pressing for small, but significant, benefits, for uniformed personel from business. Not a retention issue in my view much more about valuing personel in social settings and providing small non-monetary benefits which have a much wider impact on the status and self-worth of uniformed personel. For years there was a prohibition on military personel wearing uniform in the UK with the resulting disconnection between civil society and the military. This should not be allowed to happen in Ireland and in the current circumstances on deployment there should be a determined effort to keep the military as close as possible to civil society.

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  35. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortitude View Post
    An additional approach might be to look at widening the recruitment pool, perhaps by looking to Northern Ireland in a more systematic way and, more widely, to the EEA and the Commonwealth particularly South Africa where there are opportunities in the labour market amongst well-qualified personnel stuck on the wrong side of the affirmative action line. Not entirely soemthing that sits under retention but worth considering in a broader debate.
    We can’t advertise outside the State (very very few countries can)

    Who can apply?
    - Irish citizens
    - Refugees
    - EEA nationals
    - Nationals with 5 years legal unbroken residency in Ireland

    There is nothing to stop a non-resident EEA National applying

    Finally, no excuse for Ministers not pressing for small, but significant, benefits, for uniformed personel from business. Not a retention issue in my view much more about valuing personel in social settings and providing small non-monetary benefits which have a much wider impact on the status and self-worth of uniformed personel. For years there was a prohibition on military personel wearing uniform in the UK with the resulting disconnection between civil society and the military. This should not be allowed to happen in Ireland and in the current circumstances on deployment there should be a determined effort to keep the military as close as possible to civil society.
    why should Government push for it, when it won’t do it themselves???

    The representative associations should (and do)

  36. #100
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    Poor pay is accepted by most militaries in return for the other benefits ( and let us not forget the high respect which service to the Colours carries - i.e. the martial caste - is accepted in UK, USA etc. There is room for some study here ).

    The DF getting rid of huge property portfolios where instead Soldiers could live and start families; Mullingar for example lies idle. Doesn't help for Dublin but give it a few years. Razing Griffith and turning it into Soldiers quarters and family quarters would have shown some sort of fealty
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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