Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

PDF retention

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Could be run independently from the canteen board by a trust established from within units. It would need buy in from unit commanders to allow people to work at setting it up and running it, think Tesco shopping on line,
    Fulfilled by Amazon if you can get the same discounts they get on food.

    GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service.
    PDFORRA RACO and RDFRA are allowed to do so in line with their allowed scopes of representation and appear before Oireachtas committees frequently.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
      GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service.

      You can however engage with them on things like social housing
      But your wife and family can.

      GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service
      Which in itself is open to question given members of the RDF can serve as public representatives!
      Last edited by hptmurphy; 8 May 2018, 17:41.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

      Comment


      • #48
        Only local authorities; we cannot be in the Oireachtas or act as MEPs ( Act 1954, s.48 point (6))


        ( all of which reminds me I must read the Act again , that 'voluntary service' PQ has me thinking)
        Last edited by trellheim; 8 May 2018, 17:48.
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          But your wife and family can.



          Which in itself is open to question given members of the RDF can serve as public representatives!
          Only as far as local representative level. Members of the RDF elected to any Dail, Seanad, President etc must resign their commission / discharge. There are at least 2 x former FCA / RDF officers (1 Junior Minister) and a scattering of ex enlisted

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
            Only as far as local representative level. Members of the RDF elected to any Dail, Seanad, President etc must resign their commission / discharge. There are at least 2 x former FCA / RDF officers (1 Junior Minister) and a scattering of ex enlisted
            An ex PDF enlisted is a current member of the Seanad and Presidential hopeful

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
              You have the right to lobby your local politician to have bills raised the Dail.....its called democracy!
              We know that but on looking at the Constitution it doesn’t actually say that.... inferred but there is to right to lobby

              Comment


              • #52
                Just to show that retention is high on the priority list:
                Yeah.Officer retention.All those jobs listed are mainly Officer roles. I don't see Mowag Driver(one of our key o/seas enablers) on that list for example.

                I swear to god I would love to see someone with a commission,just once,GENUINELY,put their issues second and put their troops first. How the f**k can you be a leader with no troops to lead!!!
                There should be no such thing as PDFORRA or a need for PDFORRA taking court cases or cases to the EU Council. No need at all if our Officers looked after their people.
                But no.
                Instead of "Officers Eat last" we get "Officers Eat first".

                And we wonder why people are broken and voting with their feet. Then you have the spin put out by DoD:https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-36883898.html

                The truth is that people are applying to keep their Job seekers allowance not because they are attracted to the job. This is borne out by the numbers who actually even show up for the fitness test . Smoke and Mirrors.



                Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                GRO 43/55 Para 27 prohibits members of the DF petitioning elected representatives on anything to do with military service.

                You can however engage with them on things like social housing
                Beat me to it
                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by apod View Post
                  Yeah.Officer retention.All those jobs listed are mainly Officer roles. I don't see Mowag Driver(one of our key o/seas enablers) on that list for example.

                  I swear to god I would love to see someone with a commission,just once,GENUINELY,put their issues second and put their troops first. How the f**k can you be a leader with no troops to lead!!!
                  There should be no such thing as PDFORRA or a need for PDFORRA taking court cases or cases to the EU Council. No need at all if our Officers looked after their people.
                  But no.
                  Instead of "Officers Eat last" we get "Officers Eat first".

                  And we wonder why people are broken and voting with their feet.
                  APOD, you keep coming across as a bitter individual trying to push an us versus them agenda.

                  I can honestly tell you, every single individual I have ever discussed the matter of retention with from COS level, through the hierarchy all the way down to junior NCO have been keen to highlight the plight of the Pte soldier.

                  That being said, it is much easier to replace a line Pte than it is a marine Engr or a pilot or an ordnance officer so if the organisation puts more priority on those appointments then I support that decision. Prioritisation is a requirement of leadership
                  Last edited by Fantasia; 8 May 2018, 20:32.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                    APOD, you keep coming across as a bitter individual trying to push an us versus them agenda.

                    I can honestly tell you, every single individual I have ever discussed the matter of retention with from COS level, through the hierarchy all the way down to junior NCO have been keen to highlight the plight of the Pte soldier.

                    That being said, it is much easier to replace a line Pte than it is a marine Engr or a pilot or an ordnance officer so if the organisation puts more priority on those appointments then I support that decision. Prioritisation is a requirement of leadership
                    Not bitter.Far from it.Cynical yes.But not bitter. 21 + years of watching DF politics has made me so.

                    I really ,honestly,hand on my heart wish what i am about to say wasn't true and maybe I am being naive and hopeful that something will change but my experience tells me otherwise.And this statement proves it

                    "That being said, it is much easier to replace a line Pte than it is a marine Engr or a pilot or an ordnance officer so if the organisation puts more priority on those appointments then I support that decision. Prioritisation is a requirement of leadership"

                    It's an Officers Army.

                    Enlisted Pers are seen as disposable.Problem is the jobs CANNOT be done without the troops to do them. Try putting a Platoon on the ground for anything with no Pte's.

                    I just finished reading the Report of the PSPC 2017.The Defence sector part referenced the DoD/DPER submissions along with RACo. No mention of PDFORRAs.

                    Simply put.The grunts don't count. Our so called minister rubs our bellies and whispers platitudes and announces parades to Honor our service. You know what the average grunt thinks of that?? "Great more ceremonial,more rehearsals,more speeches telling us how great we are but nothing concrete to make our lives better even though we are blue in the face and down on our knees telling anybody who will listen how bad things are".

                    NO MORE BULLSHIT.DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!
                    Last edited by apod; 8 May 2018, 21:14.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      The fact of the matter is that a 3 star can be trained in 6 months. It takes 6 years to train a marine engineer, 4 years to train an ordnance officer, 4 years to train a pilot. The facts of the matter are that it does take longer to train the people that were listed in that article than it takes to train a line Pte.

                      I can see that you are passionate about the organisation. Like me, you have given it over 50% of your life. For us not to be passionate about wanting to change the rut we are in would be very disinginuous.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        The fact of the matter is that a 3 star can be trained in 6 months. It takes 6 years to train a marine engineer, 4 years to train an ordnance officer, 4 years to train a pilot. The facts of the matter are that it does take longer to train the people that were listed in that article than it takes to train a line Pte.
                        Agreed.But those Line Ptes are the Future Mowag drivers,Aircraft Techs,rangers,paramedics,Heavy vehicle mechanics,NCO's etc etc etc the list goes on. We need to start realising that if those Line Ptes are dropping out or being forced out than we will have no one to go into the specialised roles later in their careers. No point in upgrading our Mowags for example if all the Mowag drivers are gone before they can be upskilled.
                        Next year for example my unit will loose both those Pte's and Cpl's who have 21 and 31 years done respectively at the same time.The younger lads have a high proportion of our Mowag crews(most with multiple trips done with the cars) within their cohort.This is just before we enter our deployment cycle. Are we seriously going to entrust millions of euros worth of taxpayers money,not to mention the lives of the troops in the back to inexperienced crews when if we had a fit for purpose retention system those fit and able people could give a few more years of service??

                        I can see that you are passionate about the organisation. Like me, you have given it over 50% of your life. For us not to be passionate about wanting to change the rut we are in would be very disinginuous.
                        Bang on Sir.I have been in uniform since I was six...ahem..seventeen. I see the way the organisation is being ran into the ground and it is driving me nuts. I hate the way that in order for me to be able to vent like this to an Officer I have to post anonymously on an internet forum. I hate the way everybody bites their tongue at the General staffs "Town halls" because they are afraid to end up on the CO's mat if the say what they really feel and that the G.S go away thinking everything is hunky dory because of that.

                        The sad thing is that those who would have the most to say are usually those who would maybe get animated but still be respectful and are the most loyal to the organisation and the state.

                        God I miss D.E. Whenever you talked to him you KNEW he really,really cared.We were all like his kids and we would have followed him anywhere.
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          The general staff are actively pushing to get everyone that is medically and physically fit to be allowed serve to 50.

                          That will take some of the pressure, however as I told the COS & ACOS, they MUST secure that ASAP and info the troops, people need to know if they have a job in 12 months time.

                          The DF needs experienced Ptes and Cpls for roles too. A 21 year old is a waste in the orderly room or stores.

                          The delay in promoting Ptes to Cpl are causing problems in units. I would introduce a rank of L/Cpl or similar for those with the cse done but waiting for a vacancy. It should attract a small pay rise, say 50% of the difference between Pte and Cpl, be restricted to in barrack duties and Sec 2i/c on exercises but otherwise be treated as an NCO

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            No need at all if our Officers looked after their people.
                            But no.
                            its what they are being fed from the day they enter the DF, the only people who will make a difference are those who have served in the ranks and then go for cadetships.

                            Unfortunately most of these are classed as second class citizens by their peers and spend most of their careers fighting their own corner rather than being able to give all to the enlisted.


                            I hate the way everybody bites their tongue at the General staffs "Town halls" because they are afraid to end up on the CO's mat if the say what they really feel and that the G.S go away thinking everything is hunky dory because of that
                            Because from day one in the door thats what you are taught as the officers are taught to expect that . If the officers and the enlisted were to go through the same basic training together and officer candidates weeded out at the end and then progressed through an accelerated training programme , something like the Singaporean Army do with NCOs , we probably would end up with officers who at least had a common denominator with their men.

                            Given our cadet system is modeled on the UK system where the cadets were selected from gentry there are still overtures of a tier society in its make up, speaking to a cadet recently even he couldn't believe how tiered it is and how driven to remain so it is.

                            So its not surprising the lack of 'leadership' given how career oriented individuals become and because their progression depends on how they do rather than there mens welfare they are never going to be advocates for the rights of the enlisted.

                            So we end up with PDFORRA and the requirement for access to the courts.

                            To sum up I suppose its not going to change until the persons at the top have walked in the shoes of those at the bottom, but not to try would be disengenous to those who will follow.
                            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              The general staff are actively pushing to get everyone that is medically and physically fit to be allowed serve to 50.
                              Not bad but they need to move fast.
                              [QUOTE]
                              That will take some of the pressure, however as I told the COS & ACOS, they MUST secure that ASAP and info the troops, people need to know if they have a job in 12 months time.
                              It may be too late .Some of the lads coming up to 21 next year are going already to beat the rush.The lads/lasses we really need to hang onto.

                              The DF needs experienced Ptes and Cpls for roles too. A 21 year old is a waste in the orderly room or stores.
                              We have guys serving in stores who are even younger just because there is no one else there to do those jobs.Absolutely crazy but there it is.

                              The delay in promoting Ptes to Cpl are causing problems in units. I would introduce a rank of L/Cpl or similar for those with the cse done but waiting for a vacancy. It should attract a small pay rise, say 50% of the difference between Pte and Cpl, be restricted to in barrack duties and Sec 2i/c on exercises but otherwise be treated as an NCO.
                              Why stop there? Bring in a full LCpl Rank.It would save the DF money.A new course would be shorter and could be run at unit level like in the UK.It would sort the wheat from the chaff as to who should go onto full Cpl.And it would be an a carrot for the lads to achieve that wasn't perceived as a massive hurdle like the Current POT's cse is.
                              Good thinking though. What about a BSM of the DF's appointment any interest in that with the Bosses??
                              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by apod View Post
                                What about a BSM of the DF's appointment any interest in that with the Bosses??
                                Don't remember hearing of any TBH. There are 2 x BSM in DFHQ. 1 in SPB and 1 in J1 so they are in positions they can influence.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X