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Thread: PDF retention

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    No Dev you are not correct.

    You apply for promotion, stating what units / locations you are willing to serve.

    You can only be promoted into an appointment that you are qualified to fill. The list of appointments & qualifications is listed in Annex XYZ to Admin Instr Part 10.

    In the example you cited, the Sqn Sgt appointment would have the Cavalry Standard Course listed and you can only do that as a cav NCO.

    The problem is with line vacancies in Inf Bns, HQs and in a lot of cases the Air Corps where everyone seems to run to given half a chance
    Army unit commanders are very generous when it comes to approving a transfer for some of the dregs which have transferred into the AC. That goes for officers and enlisted.

    They don't call it a retirement home for nothing.

    The problem is when the said dreg goes for promotion, they generally have overseas service and multiple courses which are not available to AC members by virtue of the fact that they are AC line. So they end up being shafted in the promotion competition while army guys come in and put the feet up.
    Last edited by Chuck; 24th May 2018 at 20:18.

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  3. #127
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    What does any young man or woman want out of a career in the Forces?

    In my opinion...

    1. Adventure...the opportunity to prove themselves.

    2. Travel.

    3. A sense of being part of something they and their country can be proud of.

    4. Reasonably good pay and conditions.

    5. A decent pension.

    6. Knowing that they and their family will be looked after.

    7. Not being fcuked around.

    8. Learning life skills which will be useful when they leave.

    9. Within the rank system a mutual respect which goes down as well as up.

    10. Being able to walk into a bar to admiring looks from the local Ladies...and jealous glares from their unworthy boyfriends.

    I've kind of been following this thread...the problem you are discussing is also prevalent in the British Army...lots leaving and we're struggling to recruit.

    Friend of mine was in recruiting 2008-2010...he tells me he literally had queues of people looking to join as Op Herrick was in full swing...see my first point.
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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  5. #128
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  6. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Not sure what having a Minister or Minister for State has to do with PDF retention though.
    The Minister directs the DoD based on courses of action proposed by staff.

    All the policies of the DoD over the past 20 years have served to erode pay and conditions of the DF.

    Pay has been slashed, any worthwhile retirement for post 2013 contracts is gone. Allowances have been shredded. Housing support is non existent. Yet tasks and roles have expanded with continued cuts to overall establishment. Yet the DoD see fit to hire another Assistant Sec Gen appointment for HR!

    DOD have pulled AC out of participation for Hotblade Ex (I know of two pilots who left because of that decision alone).
    DOD refuse to open participation in EU Joint Units / EDA.
    DOD pulled participation in EU Battlegroup Exercises in Germany.

    All the while the Military Authorities swing up the arms onto retirement on pre 2004 pensions and lump sum bonuses for good behavior!

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  8. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    No Dev you are not correct.

    You apply for promotion, stating what units / locations you are willing to serve.

    You can only be promoted into an appointment that you are qualified to fill. The list of appointments & qualifications is listed in Annex XYZ to Admin Instr Part 10.

    In the example you cited, the Sqn Sgt appointment would have the Cavalry Standard Course listed and you can only do that as a cav NCO.

    The problem is with line vacancies in Inf Bns, HQs and in a lot of cases the Air Corps where everyone seems to run to given half a chance
    Thanks

    Do you interview for the rank as opposed to the vacancy (ie if you want Pln Sgt 7 Inf, Sgt Instr Mil Col and Clerk Sgt Tpt Gp you only go to 1 interview board)?


    With regard to courses, would a fairer way be just to give points for courses that as essential and desirable for the vacancy (I know my unit have these in standing orders and you would see them sometimes for vacancies in ROs)?

    So the Clerk Sgt gets 5 points for Ord Rm Sgt’s Cse, 5 for Ord Rm Cpl’s Cse, 5 for PMS Cse, but 0 for Sniper Instrs Cse

  9. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Thanks

    Do you interview for the rank as opposed to the vacancy (ie if you want Pln Sgt 7 Inf, Sgt Instr Mil Col and Clerk Sgt Tpt Gp you only go to 1 interview board)?


    With regard to courses, would a fairer way be just to give points for courses that as essential and desirable for the vacancy (I know my unit have these in standing orders and you would see them sometimes for vacancies in ROs)?

    So the Clerk Sgt gets 5 points for Ord Rm Sgt’s Cse, 5 for Ord Rm Cpl’s Cse, 5 for PMS Cse, but 0 for Sniper Instrs Cse
    You sit 1 interview for all appointments qualified for a period of 18 months. Your proposal is unworkable. What you are proposing was the old way, where you spend half your life sitting on interview boards
    Last edited by Fantasia; 25th May 2018 at 07:17.

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  11. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    You sit 1 interview for all appointments qualified for a period of 18 months. Your proposal is unworkable. What you are proposing was the old way, where you spend half your life sitting on interview boards
    .
    No no not proposing a board for each

    I’m proposing that courses points would only be counted for relevant courses and/or weighted.
    .

  12. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    .
    No no not proposing a board for each

    I’m proposing that courses points would only be counted for relevant courses and/or weighted.
    .
    Still unworkable. That would have a huge admin burden on EPMO

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  14. #134
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    well, the AC's version of retention is bonding techs for the cost of aircraft Type courses and in the case of joining contracts, you owe them money if you leave early. Anyone joining or seeking to join should ask about bonding before you sign any paper.

  15. #135
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    Service Committments for trainee tech schemes or external education have been around for decades and have actually come down in payback periods quite a lot. It has gone from 4 years per 1 year of instruction to 1:1 in some categories

  16. #136
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    The cost of technical training as part of your appointment enabling tyou to do your job should not be used as a threat to indenture personnel to continued service.

    Technical officers trained under Level 9 Masters with Carlow Institute of Technology are not required to sign an undertaking. Why should it be different for enlisted personnel

  17. #137
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    @fantasia, that's true, of course, but for a six week course, techs were being bonded for four years. Also, the DF has a very spotted history of not pursuing those who left or changing their tune and then aggressively chasing people. I'll bet some of the "bonding " practices wouldn't stand up to a legal challenge.

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    Service Committments for trainee tech schemes or external education have been around for decades and have actually come down in payback periods quite a lot. It has gone from 4 years per 1 year of instruction to 1:1 in some categories
    I wonder is that part of the problem with retention?

    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    The cost of technical training as part of your appointment enabling tyou to do your job should not be used as a threat to indenture personnel to continued service.

    Technical officers trained under Level 9 Masters with Carlow Institute of Technology are not required to sign an undertaking. Why should it be different for enlisted personnel
    It also make you more employable outside, if the DF is paying for your wages and your course, it’s only fair there should be return on investment.

    That isn’t right..... everyone should have to provide return on the investment

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  20. #139
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    Of course you have the old addage

    "what if we train all our troops and they leave?"
    "What if we don't train them and they stay?"

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  22. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    @fantasia, that's true, of course, but for a six week course, techs were being bonded for four years. Also, the DF has a very spotted history of not pursuing those who left or changing their tune and then aggressively chasing people. I'll bet some of the "bonding " practices wouldn't stand up to a legal challenge.
    4 years for a 6 week course seems to be a bit excessive. Any idea of the cost of the course?

  23. #141
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    The recent opinions given by some Hurler who was also in the army has mobilised the DF family on twitter. While Pay and conditions may be poor, there is nothing wrong with loyalty.
    The hashtag #notbored is trending in ireland as serving and former members of the DF use it as a platform to point out how maybe the guy who got lots of time off to play hurling, left an overseas trip half way through because of illness but was fit enough to play at his neams next game may not have been a good judge of what DF life entails.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  25. #142
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    You raise an interesting point. I sat in on an otherwise all-PDF discussion the other day and we were genuinely pushing back some new boundaries in a very busy and crowded space. Being bored is entirely a personal choice
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  27. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitÃ* View Post
    The recent opinions given by some Hurler who was also in the army has mobilised the DF family on twitter. While Pay and conditions may be poor, there is nothing wrong with loyalty.
    The hashtag #notbored is trending in ireland as serving and former members of the DF use it as a platform to point out how maybe the guy who got lots of time off to play hurling, left an overseas trip half way through because of illness but was fit enough to play at his neams next game may not have been a good judge of what DF life entails.
    The fat west brit bankrupt bookie from the big house, was banging on again yesterday on Newstalk's "the hard shoulder" at about 16.15. About the army being a waste of money as we are neutral. And what do they do all day.? Spending a billion on them. Also Inviting listeners to text in their opinion on the army.
    https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/Th...es_on_the_army

    This is not the first time he has bad mouthed the DF and I wonder what's his reason (Did the National Army stand around while the anti treaty clowns burn down the families Big House).?
    And worse, anytime anyone I have heard on the radio or telly defend the Army and it's reason it exists, it has being painful listen to them because they are always incoherent in their speech with ill prepared notes. (Except Declan Powers)

    Somebody needs to make it personal with him and remind him his type would have being in a very precarious position if the provo ra had being allowed run amock in the county side.
    Last edited by sofa; 2nd February 2019 at 22:06.

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  29. #144
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    The Consumer rights Journo Sinead Ryan is another hack with an axe to grind against the DF.Never a good word for us.
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    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  30. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The Consumer rights Journo Sinead Ryan is another hack with an axe to grind against the DF.Never a good word for us.
    Who?

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  32. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    The Consumer rights Journo Sinead Ryan is another hack with an axe to grind against the DF.Never a good word for us.
    Indo. Says it all. Good buddy of the failed bookie too, frequent contributor to his waffle.
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    German 1: That is the bad news.

  33. #147
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    Failed politician too. Takes a particular class of stupid to fail at both being a bookie and a politician !
    “The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards.”
    ― Thucydides

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  35. #148
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    He didn't fail in the slightest; he kept his pensions, did a year in Wales as a soft "punishment" to get an easier bankruptcy than an Irish one, is now back in full employment as if nothing had happened. His bookie business and employees took the hit and his accountants and lawyers made sure he's not on the breadline. Win-win. He should give classes in how to do it.

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  37. #149
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    The wuss only did one year in Wales - I've done 15, and still standing!
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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