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  • so if they kept one aircraft of the current two and never flew it maritime again, it would only need to be available for a small percentage of the time to complete army/sof, pilot training, parachuting and contingency.... surely 1 older CASA 235 airframe at least could do this and be a hanger queen for the rest of the year?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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    • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
      Doesn't necessarily require a palletized system, all those roles are achievable with FITS type consoles in place, this has been demonstrated with the current aircraft.

      Its a pity they don't specify a particular weight/volume over a specified distance...
      A CASA (235 or 295) I very much doubt can carry 6000kg / 20 troops without removing the consoles.

      Originally posted by morpheus View Post
      so if they kept one aircraft of the current two and never flew it maritime again, it would only need to be available for a small percentage of the time to complete army/sof, pilot training, parachuting and contingency.... surely 1 older CASA 235 airframe at least could do this and be a hanger queen for the rest of the year?
      Let’s say max utilisation is the 3000 hours annually, 30% of that still 900 hours! Not a small number

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      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
        A CASA (235 or 295) I very much doubt can carry 6000kg / 20 troops without removing the consoles.
        CN-235 Can't do 6T in any config, I'm sure the C-295 could take 20 troops with the consoles installed, depending on where the consoles are located 6 Tonnes might be possible. The New FITS and Radar are much more modern then the original Kit(Obviously) but importantly don't require the large avionics rack of the previous gen.

        I'm not an advocate of the C-295, nor do I believe they still need observation windows or some of the legacy ideas from the current aircraft.
        Broken record for sure, but IMHO just replacing the aircraft with slightly more capability is a mistake that will hamstring the DF for another 25 years.

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        • Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
          Doesn't necessarily require a palletized system, all those roles are achievable with FITS type consoles in place, this has been demonstrated with the current aircraft.

          Its a pity they don't specify a particular weight/volume over a specified distance...
          Originally posted by Charlie252 View Post
          CN-235 Can't do 6T in any config, I'm sure the C-295 could take 20 troops with the consoles installed, depending on where the consoles are located 6 Tonnes might be possible. The New FITS and Radar are much more modern then the original Kit(Obviously) but importantly don't require the large avionics rack of the previous gen.

          I'm not an advocate of the C-295, nor do I believe they still need observation windows or some of the legacy ideas from the current aircraft.
          Broken record for sure, but IMHO just replacing the aircraft with slightly more capability is a mistake that will hamstring the DF for another 25 years.
          From the Portuguese video, the FITS suite is on the 3rd pallet (nearest the flight deck), middle is the rest area (6 seats and table plus about 10 troop seats and/or litters) and last is the observers etc pallet plus the SAR kit on the ramp

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          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            Up to the point where you introduced the concept of the 295 carrying a vehicle I'm in full agreement, but we don't have anything suitable to be carried other than motor bikes or quads....
            The Ford Ranger should be suitable.
            The French will soon be introducing into service its Peugeot P4 replacement, the ACMAT VT4, which is a Ford Everest SUV modified by ACMAT for the French contract. The Ford Everest is the SUV variant of the Ford Ranger pickup.
            The French have said the ACMAT VT4 can be airlifted by their CASA CN-235's, so if it can be airlifted then so to can a Ford Ranger.

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            • I would have thought the tender pointed to c27j?

              Kc390 might be nice, but it's not European

              C 27 used by uscg with whom the ac have links, and was favoured by the army back in 2003 to the extent that there was a demo arranged without bluffwaffe interference, meets all the specs.

              Comment


              • C27J is nothing but an updated G222, itself a tried and tested aircraft. A Mini herc with updated avionics and powerplant. The Aussies chose the C27J over the C295 in their recent Caribou replacement,as the C295 couldn't take the G-Wagen. When the USAF decided to retire their C27 for bugetary reasons, SOCOM and the USCG snapped them up. They has already proved their usefulness in Afghanistan, SOCOM using them where they used to use the CH47, the USCG cancelling an order of HC144(Based on the CN235) when the C27J became available to them.
                So it seems to tick all the boxes that the C295 doesn't.
                The only reservation I would have is the MC27J is not in widespread use in MPA configuration, its weather radar is a backward step from the 360deg search radar of the CN235, and one wonders if the installation of a 360 search radar would impact much on the rest of its transport capabilities.
                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                • The C27 isn’t currently in service as an MPA equipped with the correct equipment

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                  • That's what I was thinking. USCG seem to be using them just with weather radar and Mk 1 eyeball.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                      The Ford Ranger should be suitable.
                      The French will soon be introducing into service its Peugeot P4 replacement, the ACMAT VT4, which is a Ford Everest SUV modified by ACMAT for the French contract. The Ford Everest is the SUV variant of the Ford Ranger pickup.
                      The French have said the ACMAT VT4 can be airlifted by their CASA CN-235's, so if it can be airlifted then so to can a Ford Ranger.
                      Look at the photos posted and read what others have written, the Ford 350 won't fit in the back of a CN295..ergo anything of a similar size won't fit
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • I would have thought the tender pointed to c27j?
                        Production of the C27 ended in 2016.....what would it cost to re open a production facility for three may be 4 aircraft given the second hand market is already availing of retired US aircraft?
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                          The Ford Ranger should be suitable.
                          The French will soon be introducing into service its Peugeot P4 replacement, the ACMAT VT4, which is a Ford Everest SUV modified by ACMAT for the French contract. The Ford Everest is the SUV variant of the Ford Ranger pickup.
                          The French have said the ACMAT VT4 can be airlifted by their CASA CN-235's, so if it can be airlifted then so to can a Ford Ranger.
                          Look at the photos posted and read what others have written, the Ford 350 won't fit in the back of a CN295..ergo anything of a similar size won't fit

                          Click image for larger version

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                          Last edited by hptmurphy; 27 May 2018, 21:13.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            Look at the photos posted and read what others have written, the Ford 350 won't fit in the back of a CN295..ergo anything of a similar size won't fit
                            I said Ford Ranger, not Ford 350. They are a completely different vehicle.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                              Production of the C27 ended in 2016.....what would it cost to re open a production facility for three may be 4 aircraft given the second hand market is already availing of retired US aircraft?
                              You may be incorrect there Murph. The US aircraft went back into US hands, as the Italian makers refused to cover warranties of ex us aircraft, which were retired in an almost new condition. The Makers claimed these aircraft would compete with new orders. Meanwhile Zambia ordered just 2 aircraft in 2017, and the MPA version is being offerred to Canada and the RAF.
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • The C27J is still advertised on the Leonardo website. Doesn't mention a Maritime patrol variant. They offer the ATR 72 MP for that.

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