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  1. #101
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    You wont be long getting pissed off if the CoS says that you have to go all the way to Chad or Mali in a PC-12. There's a reason why the French use proper commercial sized transport aircraft, not warmed over business aircraft. If the DF genuinely wants to support the ARW on foreign ops, then ship out a pair of EC 135s in a couple of crates and pay a few techs and pilots to run them. The French, Brits and US do it as a matter of routine and have done so for decades.

  2. #102
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    You wont be long getting pissed off if the CoS says that you have to go all the way to Chad or Mali in a PC-12. There's a reason why the French use proper commercial sized transport aircraft, not warmed over business aircraft. If the DF genuinely wants to support the ARW on foreign ops, then ship out a pair of EC 135s in a couple of crates and pay a few techs and pilots to run them. The French, Brits and US do it as a matter of routine and have done so for decades.
    I was in CDG , Paris recently and was amazed to that there was whole ramp occupied by various Airbus types in military markings used for transporting duties, the UK did all their troop moves for years using VC10 and the L1011 Tristars again recycled from airlines.

    If you are going to move large amounts of troops on a regular basis , you need access to suitable aircraft.

    For one offs or even the potential to train for one offs with SFs you need access to capable aircraft.

    If the DF genuinely wants to support the ARW on foreign ops, then ship out a pair of EC 135s in a couple of crates and pay a few techs and pilots to run them.
    Belgians did it recently to Mali , I think, with a few NH90s.....in exactly that format...
    Time for another break I think......

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  4. #103
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    The Yanks and Brits have been doing it since the evolution of a helicopter that could lift more than itself. These days, you send out your SF without a helicopter, you may as well leave rifles at home.

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  6. #104
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Response to question received on the RFP.

    70% of the usage will be maritime patrol (including SAR TC)
    20% will be logistical and army/SOF support (including MEDEVAC and air ambulance)
    8% will be training pilot and army (including parachuting)
    2% will be contingency (including VIP)

    Each aircraft in the fleet is required to be able to do each listed role (to be that says a modular/palletised mission suite)

  7. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Response to question received on the RFP.

    70% of the usage will be maritime patrol (including SAR TC)
    20% will be logistical and army/SOF support (including MEDEVAC and air ambulance)
    8% will be training pilot and army (including parachuting)
    2% will be contingency (including VIP)

    Each aircraft in the fleet is required to be able to do each listed role (to be that says a modular/palletised mission suite)
    Doesn't necessarily require a palletized system, all those roles are achievable with FITS type consoles in place, this has been demonstrated with the current aircraft.

    Its a pity they don't specify a particular weight/volume over a specified distance...

  8. #106
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    so if they kept one aircraft of the current two and never flew it maritime again, it would only need to be available for a small percentage of the time to complete army/sof, pilot training, parachuting and contingency.... surely 1 older CASA 235 airframe at least could do this and be a hanger queen for the rest of the year?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  9. #107
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie252 View Post
    Doesn't necessarily require a palletized system, all those roles are achievable with FITS type consoles in place, this has been demonstrated with the current aircraft.

    Its a pity they don't specify a particular weight/volume over a specified distance...
    A CASA (235 or 295) I very much doubt can carry 6000kg / 20 troops without removing the consoles.

    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    so if they kept one aircraft of the current two and never flew it maritime again, it would only need to be available for a small percentage of the time to complete army/sof, pilot training, parachuting and contingency.... surely 1 older CASA 235 airframe at least could do this and be a hanger queen for the rest of the year?
    Let’s say max utilisation is the 3000 hours annually, 30% of that still 900 hours! Not a small number

  10. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    A CASA (235 or 295) I very much doubt can carry 6000kg / 20 troops without removing the consoles.
    CN-235 Can't do 6T in any config, I'm sure the C-295 could take 20 troops with the consoles installed, depending on where the consoles are located 6 Tonnes might be possible. The New FITS and Radar are much more modern then the original Kit(Obviously) but importantly don't require the large avionics rack of the previous gen.

    I'm not an advocate of the C-295, nor do I believe they still need observation windows or some of the legacy ideas from the current aircraft.
    Broken record for sure, but IMHO just replacing the aircraft with slightly more capability is a mistake that will hamstring the DF for another 25 years.

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  12. #109
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie252 View Post
    Doesn't necessarily require a palletized system, all those roles are achievable with FITS type consoles in place, this has been demonstrated with the current aircraft.

    Its a pity they don't specify a particular weight/volume over a specified distance...
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie252 View Post
    CN-235 Can't do 6T in any config, I'm sure the C-295 could take 20 troops with the consoles installed, depending on where the consoles are located 6 Tonnes might be possible. The New FITS and Radar are much more modern then the original Kit(Obviously) but importantly don't require the large avionics rack of the previous gen.

    I'm not an advocate of the C-295, nor do I believe they still need observation windows or some of the legacy ideas from the current aircraft.
    Broken record for sure, but IMHO just replacing the aircraft with slightly more capability is a mistake that will hamstring the DF for another 25 years.
    From the Portuguese video, the FITS suite is on the 3rd pallet (nearest the flight deck), middle is the rest area (6 seats and table plus about 10 troop seats and/or litters) and last is the observers etc pallet plus the SAR kit on the ramp

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