Thanks Thanks:  17
Likes Likes:  22
Dislikes Dislikes:  1
Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1
    Colonel
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,496
    Post Thanks / Like

    Pilatus PC-12 NG

    The first Air Corps PC-12 has made its maiden flight.



  2. Thanks restless, Herald, meridian, DeV, sofa, ias, Turkey thanked for this post
    Likes na grohmití, Herald, Anzac, Chuck, meridian, DeV liked this post
  3. #2
    Corporal
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    Positive development. Hopefully there will be no unexpected delays.

    Very thankful that it isn't a god awful Cessna Caravan.

  4. Likes meridian liked this post
  5. #3
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    853
    Post Thanks / Like
    The integration and testing of its mission role equipment in realistic test scenarios will be key.

  6. Likes meridian liked this post
  7. #4
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    The rich side of town
    Posts
    2,024
    Post Thanks / Like
    How are they being fitted out?

    Night optics and FLIR? Or is it reclining leather seats with an inflight drinks service?
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  8. Dislikes apod disliked this post
  9. #5
    Corporal
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bam Bam View Post
    How are they being fitted out?

    Night optics and FLIR? Or is it reclining leather seats with an inflight drinks service?
    Have you bothered to read the tender specification?

  10. Thanks apod thanked for this post
    Likes na grohmití, DeV, apod liked this post
  11. #6
    C/S
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    6,511
    Post Thanks / Like
    For those of you who don't know, aircraft are commonly test flown and fitted out in the basic primer paint, as seen here, before getting the final paint scheme, before the very last acceptance event. By the look of it, it is still a Swiss aircraft and will not become "Irish" for a while yet.

  12. Thanks sofa thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  13. #7
    Sergeant
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    80
    Post Thanks / Like
    Did a little bit of searching on this aircraft, and found that it's civil reg (HB-FSF) is used by Pilatus as a temporary registration for aircraft before it gets its final reg. This aircraft, serial 1795 (shown on the nosewheel door), was noted transiting through Prestwick > Reykjavik > Kangerlussuaq > Iqaluit > Thunder Bay > Denver (BJC) between May 30th to June 2nd, where Pilatus have an aircraft completion centre.

    Picture of the aircraft transiting Prestwick airport

    * https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8967695

  14. Thanks EUFighter thanked for this post
    Likes Tempest liked this post
  15. #8
    Corporal
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    The aircraft will have all mission equipment installed in the US.

  16. Thanks apod, DeV, meridian thanked for this post
    Likes Jetjock liked this post
  17. #9
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,732
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    The aircraft will have all mission equipment installed in the US.
    Well that should dispel any lingering doubt as to these aircraft. In that case, the fit out will be done by the experts and it will be a very capable force multiplier.

  18. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes apod, DeV, meridian liked this post
  19. #10
    Commandant
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    1,825
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    Well that should dispel any lingering doubt as to these aircraft. In that case, the fit out will be done by the experts and it will be a very capable force multiplier.
    i don't think there were ever any doubts about the quality of the installation, more about what was actually going to be installed...

  20. #11
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    853
    Post Thanks / Like
    It's one thing to install capable equipment, its another to verify it actually works under realistic testing scenarios

  21. #12
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    3,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    Did a little bit of searching on this aircraft, and found that it's civil reg (HB-FSF) is used by Pilatus as a temporary registration for aircraft before it gets its final reg. This aircraft, serial 1795 (shown on the nosewheel door), was noted transiting through Prestwick > Reykjavik > Kangerlussuaq > Iqaluit > Thunder Bay > Denver (BJC) between May 30th to June 2nd, where Pilatus have an aircraft completion centre.

    Picture of the aircraft transiting Prestwick airport

    * https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8967695
    Is that not rather a lot of miles to put onto a “new” airframe? (I know nothing about how these things work!)
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  22. Likes sofa liked this post
  23. #13
    Corporal
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like
    You keep saying realistic testing scenarios. Is this some type of buzzword you just discovered?

    The first aircraft is probably not far off 12 months away at this stage. Of course there is going to be extensive testing of equipment. The tender spec points quite clearly to having a heavy focus on interoperability with both the Army and NS.

    There are other operators out there, including the US who can offer insight into what does and doesn't work. This isn't reinventing the wheel.

    This aircraft and its mission is almost entirely new for the AC so of course there will be teething problems. Accepting a new aircraft type and the subsequent myriad of training syllabi etc etc is probably one of the most challenging things an air arm can do, especially for one that doesn't have endless resources and has significant HR and retention issues.

    This isn't like buying soft ordnance or clothing which the army routinely make a balls of. It is a little more complex.

    Your two posts on this thread contribute very little to the discussion.
    Last edited by Chuck; 8th June 2018 at 05:55.

  24. Thanks paul g, meridian, DeV thanked for this post
    Likes apod, paul g, Rhodes, meridian liked this post
  25. #14
    Private 2*
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    I wonder if it will end up like the Dauphins overloaded with rarely used kit. Or the Defender just overloaded. ISTAR is a great capability in a military with a real combat role.
    Still the PC 12 will be great for getting politicians to Brussels relatively cheaply.

  26. #15
    bosun
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    cork
    Posts
    1,657
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    Did a little bit of searching on this aircraft, and found that it's civil reg (HB-FSF) is used by Pilatus as a temporary registration for aircraft before it gets its final reg. This aircraft, serial 1795 (shown on the nosewheel door), was noted transiting through Prestwick > Reykjavik > Kangerlussuaq > Iqaluit > Thunder Bay > Denver (BJC) between May 30th to June 2nd, where Pilatus have an aircraft completion centre.

    Picture of the aircraft transiting Prestwick airport

    * https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8967695
    know little about aircraft but it looks like its all square segments riveted , not the smooth lines of a modern craft,,

  27. #16
    bosun
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    cork
    Posts
    1,657
    Post Thanks / Like
    it will be the politicans plane no doubt,,otherwise we would not have it,,,

  28. #17
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    3,158
    Post Thanks / Like
    It does look more like an air taxi than a military workhorse.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  29. #18
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    20,605
    Post Thanks / Like
    Have a look at the specs

  30. #19
    Sergeant Major
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    853
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by golden rivet View Post
    know little about aircraft but it looks like its all square segments riveted , not the smooth lines of a modern craft,,
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    You keep saying realistic testing scenarios. Is this some type of buzzword you just discovered?

    The first aircraft is probably not far off 12 months away at this stage. Of course there is going to be extensive testing of equipment. The tender spec points quite clearly to having a heavy focus on interoperability with both the Army and NS.

    There are other operators out there, including the US who can offer insight into what does and doesn't work. This isn't reinventing the wheel.

    This aircraft and its mission is almost entirely new for the AC so of course there will be teething problems. Accepting a new aircraft type and the subsequent myriad of training syllabi etc etc is probably one of the most challenging things an air arm can do, especially for one that doesn't have endless resources and has significant HR and retention issues.

    This isn't like buying soft ordnance or clothing which the army routinely make a balls of. It is a little more complex.

    Your two posts on this thread contribute very little to the discussion.
    I appreciate your passion and obvious emotional investment in the project.

    I have no doubt the manufacturer will indeed test equipment in a lab and very controlled test range setting but will acceptance and payment be made after or before the aircraft is deployed in country with the assets it is expected to work with?

    My fear is that DF personnel will cave to the significant pressure that will be applied by the manufacturer/systems integrator to sign the acceptance contract before unacceptable links are ironed out.

    I forsee that the aircraft final payment and acceptance will be made before it is used in an operational setting and low and behold it will have significant "teething problems". Asking for them to be fixed will result in a significant extra fees not covered by purchase contract.

    Just because others operate them does not mean the likes of the US Military will share operational and tactical SOP with Ireland for free.

    Yes Army LTAVs spring to mind. But so does a myriad of other systems the Defence Forces have purchased that cut across all three services.

    Yes, the project is complex. So should the operational testing of the aircraft, systems and integration to the wider DF ISTAR network. Training and continued training support until operators from both Air and Ground services are up to task should be included in the purchase cost, not just flight qualifications. Then and only then should final payments be made.

    If this is a whole new mission set for the Air Corps and such a heavy point was made on interoperability with Army and Naval Service assets, has the DF reorganised it's organisational structure to accommodate this new aircraft? Is there a brigade joint intel fusion cell? What units will the personnel that will man this come from? Has CS4 / ECF changed to accommodate the new mission?

    As you say this investment is complex.
    Last edited by TangoSierra; Today at 21:34.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •