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  1. #1
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    Mid 1980s IDF Platoon/Squad Level Organisation/Loadout?

    Hey there,

    I am miniature wargamer looking to recreate a mid 1980s IDF force for use in tabletop scenarios. Just looking for some basic information on platoon/squad level load and organization.

    Heres what i got so far to my understanding.

    Platoon comprises 3 squads of 8 or 10? men per squad?

    NCO is armed with carl gustav SMG, rest of squad is armed with FN FALs and one GPMG

    What about support weapons? Were any anti tank weapons available at platoon level such as the 84 recoiless Carl Gustav? Mortars 81 mm? 105mm light guns when did they enter service where they platoon level support like modern day? What about platoon command? Radio? Medic? Sniper teams where were they attached and what rifle did they use?

    Also some vehicle questions while am asking, did the ranger win use the Land Rover 110XD WMIK in this period? Also the scorpions when did they receive their co axial GPMGs? i can only find pictures of them in the early and mid 80s with the command vehicle mounted with a .50 i cant see any examples of them with GPMGs as we see later.

    Also of questions there anyway! Much appreciate any and all answers!
    Cheers!

  2. #2
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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    In the 1980s a platoon in the Irish Defence Forces would have consisted of 3 x 10 man sections (Manoeuver Group 1 Cpl and 6, FSG Group 1 Cpl and 2) and a Pln HQ (4 - Lt, Sgt, 2 x Pte)

    Up to 1988 the main weapon was the FN Fal carried by Pln Sgt and all Ptes except 1 FSG. Pln Commander and Cpls carried Gustaf SMG. One of the Ptes in Pln HQ was designated sniper/security so he may have had an FN with a scope or a Lee Enfield with a scope (I only ever saw them in stores I have never seen them carried on the ground). FSG weapon was the GPMG.

    Company support weapons could be attached to Plns. They would have included GPMG SF, 60 morter, 84 Carl Gustaf A/Tk. I don't know when the Ground 90 went out of service. Also there could be the Energa grenades deployed.

    The 105 would not have been attached at platoon level or even deployed outside of battery level formation. I am not sure when it came into service, I suspect the 80s as when I enlisted in 1990 there was still at least one PDF unit that had 25 pdrs.

  3. #3
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    Thanks very much for the information,

    So a basic breakdown of a platoon would look something like this?

    Platoon HQ
    4 x Lt's with Fn Fal with the commander having a Gustav?
    1 x Sgt with Fn Fal
    1 x Pte with FN Fal
    1 x Pte Sniper

    Section 1
    MG1
    6 x Pte Fn Fal
    1 x Cpl Carl Gustav SMG
    FSG 1
    1 x Cpl Carl Gustav SMG
    2 x Fn Fal

    Section 2
    MG1
    6 x Pte Fn Fal
    1 x Cpl Carl Gustav SMG
    FSG 1
    1 x Cpl Carl Gustav SMG
    2 x Fn Fal

    Section 3
    MG1
    6 x Pte Fn Fal
    1 x Cpl Carl Gustav SMG
    FSG 1
    1 x Cpl Carl Gustav SMG
    1 x PTE Fn Fal
    1 x PTE GPMG

    Or did each sections FSG have a GPMG ?

    Also how did the support weapons attach to the sections? GPMG SF same as a FSG? 1 Cpl with 2 PTE? Same with Mortar teams? Did they give the Carl Gustaf A/Tk directly to a section or was its own team like seen with modern day GPMG SF and Mortars?

  4. #4
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    The 105 was introduced around the early 1980s, I'm old enough to remember being on an exercise in 87 and they were in use them

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  6. #5
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Generally if detached, the 84 etc would be detached to Pln HQ

  7. #6
    Lt General
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    I don't think the Arw used the WMIK at any stage. The type used in Liberia was a different version which was introduced for that operation. Prior to that ACMAT trucks had been used, with GPMG and HMG mounted in on the cargo area. Other less conspicuous vehicles were also used, in addition to Nissan Patrol, Land rover defender and an occasional Toyota land cruiser. These started out with canvas roofs but in the late 80s all were converted to metal roofs or withdrawn from service.
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  8. #7
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    Thanks to all for the replies,

    So would this be the basic organizational structure then?

    Platoon HQ

    1 x Lts Carl Gustav
    3 x Lts FN Fal
    1 x Sgt FN Fal
    1 x Pte FN Fal
    1 x Pte Sniper

    Section 1

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    2 x Pte FN Fal

    Section 2

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    2 x Pte FN Fal

    Section 3

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    1 x Pte FN Fal
    1 x Pte GPMG

    How did the support weapons be attached to the platoon? Presumably the GPMG SF Mount/Mortars teams were separate like modern day so something like 1x Cpl with Gustaf SMG and 2x Pte with GPMG ? Were the Gustav AT’s placed directly into a section though?

  9. #8
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Thanks to all for the replies,

    So would this be the basic organizational structure then?

    Platoon HQ

    1 x Lts Carl Gustav
    3 x Lts FN Fal
    1 x Sgt FN Fal
    1 x Pte FN Fal
    1 x Pte Sniper

    Section 1

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    2 x Pte FN Fal

    Section 2

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    2 x Pte FN Fal

    Section 3

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    1 x Pte FN Fal
    1 x Pte GPMG

    How did the support weapons be attached to the platoon? Presumably the GPMG SF Mount/Mortars teams were separate like modern day so something like 1x Cpl with Gustaf SMG and 2x Pte with GPMG ? Were the Gustav AT’s placed directly into a section though?
    No 3 x Lt

    They were attached so 1 x Cpl and 2/3 x Pte per detachment. With 1 x support weapon per detachment

  10. #9
    Lt General
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    Also each section would be armed thus:

    Section 1

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl FN FAL
    1 x Pte FN FAL
    1 x Pte FN MAG (GPMG).

    It is all notional though. I don't think there was ever an Ex carried out at Batallion level up to the early 2000s, by which time the ORBAT had changed significantly. Up to then the best you could hope for was a Coy level ex, or a paper exercise. There was just too many other littoral commitments to train for, instead of spending time, manpower and effort on a conventional scenario, which was wholly unlikely.
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  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    No 3 x Lt

    They were attached so 1 x Cpl and 2/3 x Pte per detachment. With 1 x support weapon per detachment
    Ok so

    Platoon HQ would be?

    1 x Lts Carl Gustav
    1 x Sgt FN Fal
    1 x Pte FN Fal
    1 x Pte Sniper

    Would the HQ also receive a radio?

    And say for a Gustav A/T then something like

    1 x Cpl SMG
    1 x Pte FN Fal
    1 x Pte FN Fal
    1 x Pte FN Fal/Gutav A/T

    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Also each section would be armed thus:

    Section 1

    MG
    1 x Cpl Gustav SMG
    6 x Pte FN Fal
    FSG
    1 x Cpl FN FAL
    1 x Pte FN FAL
    1 x Pte FN MAG (GPMG).

    It is all notional though. I don't think there was ever an Ex carried out at Batallion level up to the early 2000s, by which time the ORBAT had changed significantly. Up to then the best you could hope for was a Coy level ex, or a paper exercise. There was just too many other littoral commitments to train for, instead of spending time, manpower and effort on a conventional scenario, which was wholly unlikely.
    Lovely, thanks very much. Yea of course the reality is never how it goes in the book generally but for the purposes of re creating scenarios for wargaming ya need a baseline to work with of what it 'should' be.

  13. #11
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    1 x Cpl and 2 x Pte in a 84 detachment

  14. #12
    Private 2*
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    1 x Cpl and 2 x Pte in a 84 detachment
    So they would be attached to a section as a FSG? or operating independently withing the platoon?

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