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  1. #26
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    What effect will this decision have on the MRV plans?
    Doubt it will

    There are and will be other missions

    Op Pontus/Op Sophia proved it is required and the NS is capable

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    What effect will this decision have on the MRV plans?
    I'm not sure how it could given that the MRV is for much longer than the operation would have been going on, though as said hopefully the few years doing this will support the need for a Multi role ship.

    The greater question is has there been anymore word on whether the NS might look to UNFIL or Atlanta operations?

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    I'm not sure how it could given that the MRV is for much longer than the operation would have been going on, though as said hopefully the few years doing this will support the need for a Multi role ship.

    The greater question is has there been anymore word on whether the NS might look to UNFIL or Atlanta operations?
    The Department of Foreign Affairs through its IRISH AID program , sees urgent need to provide humanitarian aid in East Africa, and has provided for rapid response personnel on the ground ( 6) to assist their aid program. They spend more than 100 million Euro on providing aid. A ship is a huge source of immediate aid with boats, personnel, first aiders, technicians, ability to provide water and a sustained presence. The Brits used to be first up with a ship and helicopters , I think the Indians may currently be doing that job . It provides International standing for participants and goodwill towards nations visibly providing aid.

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  5. #29
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    The closing of the mission getting some attention from the Irish Times today:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...phia-1.3845980

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  7. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    The closing of the mission getting some attention from the Irish Times today:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...phia-1.3845980
    Service involvement in missions is always pro-active and fairly immediate in response, such as saving lives or allowing indigenous people get on with theirs. Politicians operate to expedients and self interest at a personal level and to National interests. It is unfortunate that the lead country in Op. Sophia was left carrying an unsustainable burden. However overall it is an EU mission and it's not over until it's over.

  8. #31
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Service involvement in missions is always pro-active and fairly immediate in response, such as saving lives or allowing indigenous people get on with theirs. Politicians operate to expedients and self interest at a personal level and to National interests. It is unfortunate that the lead country in Op. Sophia was left carrying an unsustainable burden. However overall it is an EU mission and it's not over until it's over.
    Not forgetting that while the Taoiseach, Cabinet, the other Departments and the DF may be singing off one hymn sheet.... DoD will have an opposing view

  9. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Not forgetting that while the Taoiseach, Cabinet, the other Departments and the DF may be singing off one hymn sheet.... DoD will have an opposing view
    As of now Libya is destabilised with Kalifha Haftar's forces securing the Oil region to the SW and attempting to seize Tripoli on the North coast with mobile units. Some sources say Russian forces are imbedded and that there may be an intention to push hundreds of thousands of refugees towards European countries at an opportune time. Between regionally displaced people and Africans south of Sahara in Libya, there are more than 3/4 million refugees looking for settlement. With involvement of various countries agents somebody must know the catalyst of the present conflict, it's goals, and potential effects on Europe and us.

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  11. #33
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    I was just listening to an interview on Radio 4 with a Lybian ex-prime minister who claimed there was French backing for the rebels...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  12. #34
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    I recall reading that the Haftar forces received technical support and spare parts to restore mirage F1's to operational status from France, I don't have a source at the moment, I'll see if I can dig it up. Our old girl could end up seeing action out there yet. Back when Gaddafi was being overthrown they used a frigate to ferry hundreds of men to Tripoli, a similar move could be on the cards now too.

  13. #35
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Sure the West was conducting air strikes in support of the rebels

    Rightly or wrongly, the West was an active participant in the Civil War which has created the mess

  14. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Sure the West was conducting air strikes in support of the rebels

    Rightly or wrongly, the West was an active participant in the Civil War which has created the mess
    It has been reported that Khalifa Hafter's forces are on the outskirts of Tripoli and may have taken control of Tripoli Airport, although nothing much happens there commercially. There is a US Naval group in the Mediterranean and it is also reported that two USN LCAC vessels entered the coastal town of Janzour, close to Tripoli, loaded and left possibly to a Landing ship Dock type vessel. The LCAC can lift 75tonnes or hundreds of troops.The presumption is they removed US military personnel from the conflict area.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 10th April 2019 at 20:06.

  15. #37
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It has been reported that Khalifa Hafter's forces are on the outskirts of Tripoli and may have taken control of Tripoli Airport, although nothing much happens there commercially. There is a US Naval group in the Mediterranean and it is also reported that two USN LCAC vessels entered the coastal town of Janzour, close to Tripoli, loaded and left possibly to a Landing ship Dock type vessel. The LCAC can lift 75tonnes or hundreds of troops.The presumption is they removed US military personnel from the conflict area.
    I’m talking about the 2011 NATO intervention

  16. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I’m talking about the 2011 NATO intervention
    I was just stating the latest news and tagged it to last entry, not in a critique but for convenience. I do recall UN resolution 1973 and the largely Nato intervention in March 2011 of Belgium, Canada, Denmark , France, Norway Spain, Quatar, UK, US , Italy. They had stated humanitarian reasons but it all went wrong as the country turned on itself and remains out of control. It did also show that no matter how well armed with surface to air technology you are, if you are not skilled in its use then it is useless. They had hundreds of missile launchers but no kills in a mainly air war.

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  18. #39
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    All naval forces have temporarily been withdrawn (as at 29 Mar 19)

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...eptember-2019/

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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    All naval forces have temporarily been withdrawn (as at 29 Mar 19)

    https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/p...eptember-2019/
    Giving aid and training to the Libyan Forces is fraught--who exactly are they?? They have one of our ships which they claim to have recovered to it's proper home!!!

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  22. #41
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Giving aid and training to the Libyan Forces is fraught--who exactly are they?? They have one of our ships which they claim to have recovered to it's proper home!!!
    I assume the international recognised Government’s forces but you have a point.... but what is the alternative? An EU occupation of Libya!

    Which ship?

  23. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I assume the international recognised Government’s forces but you have a point.... but what is the alternative? An EU occupation of Libya!

    Which ship?
    Aisling was sold to them (or one of the factions) by the shipping agent that bought her from the auction.
    And yeah short of putting in a full occupation force I don't see much option given how Libya has gone post intervention.
    Last edited by Sparky42; 21st May 2019 at 12:55.

  24. #43
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
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  26. #44
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    Military hardware, including ocean going vessels with long range should not be sold by civilian auction. It can be sold and resold and wind up in Nigeria or Libya and put to aggressive use. The State should sell it's unwanted materials in Defence Journals and choose recipients carefully or go for a SINKEX.

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