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  • #16
    The Swedish ranges would be significantly bigger than anything available here and have little aviation in the area in comparison to us, they would also have all the necessary primary radar (maybe telemetry) etc to monitor the airspace, missile and target. Saab May have reps on site and the Swedes have much more experience of it than us.

    Not forgetting of course the missile could go rogue and end up in any direction.

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    • #17
      In years gone by on Naval exercise when we fired at towed drougues for AA shoots the intention was to miss the rogue as it had sensors that relayed back to the ship the proximity of the rounds and potential hits were recorded from this telemetry.

      The ammunition in use had self destruct fuzes in that desroy the round at certain distances.

      The 57mm on Eithne had a degree effor programmed into the FCS is order to preserve targets.... but we did manage to shoot them down occassionally. Targets for surface shoots were a type of barge....made of wood which was reasonably indestructable.

      Obviously time has moved on and tech plays a greater part in these shoots, but it muts be recognised that it is hard work for all involved... but quite enjoyable.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • #18
        Why am I reminded of the old chestnut about the irate pilot of a drogue plane radioing to the ground "I'm towing this target, not pushing it! "
        'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
        'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
        Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
        He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
        http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
          Why am I reminded of the old chestnut about the irate pilot of a drogue plane radioing to the ground "I'm towing this target, not pushing it! "
          There must have been the largest concentration of Radio operators attached to Air defence that day, because at least hundreds will testify to say they heard that radio message.....
          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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          • #20
            The forward deployment of aircraft, aircrew, technicians and ordinance to a remote operating location is something that has long been called for here on IMO, so credit where credit is due.

            Regarding the RBS 70, it is a line of sight weapon and live firings are quite feasible here. The (widely available) missile maximum range/altitude would make the required aviation Danger Area quite small. Similar to the EL70 would be sufficient. Much busier air routes exist all around the Welsh ranges. There is a lot of experience within Air Traffic Control in the management of Danger Areas here around busy airspace at Gormanstown and aircraft inbound to Cork and Shannon regularly deviate when Kilworth is active. Why were the Swedish ranges used? I'd venture that it was simply because there was zero experience here of actually firing a live round until some near time expired examples were released from stores. The Swedes use towed drogue targets similar to what the ADR were shooting at. Nothing fancy.

            Also, firing out to sea the chances of a round going rouge are less than slim to none. The missile has no self tracking capability and relies fully on operator input. It also a fail safe self destruct mode when laser guidance is lost for a predetermined time.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
              Why am I reminded of the old chestnut about the irate pilot of a drogue plane radioing to the ground "I'm towing this target, not pushing it! "
              tis true..I heard it..............only kidding...but what I did here is... you've just shot down the drogue.....can you get a boat to it before it sinks!!!!
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #22
                Every Air Corps pilot ( and the drogue operator in the back) who flew the drogue towing Cessnas will tell you of close calls from over enthusiastic gunners, so it is not a myth. Also, when the RAF used Meteors to tow drogues for air to air gunnery, way back when, several came back with holes in them from close calls............if the DF have shown that they can fire from Galley Head, in a competent fashion, why was it necessary to bring a Navy 20mm on a platform all the way to the Glen to fire it? (as related previously in these pages)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                  Every Air Corps pilot ( and the drogue operator in the back) who flew the drogue towing Cessnas will tell you of close calls from over enthusiastic gunners, so it is not a myth. Also, when the RAF used Meteors to tow drogues for air to air gunnery, way back when, several came back with holes in them from close calls............if the DF have shown that they can fire from Galley Head, in a competent fashion, why was it necessary to bring a Navy 20mm on a platform all the way to the Glen to fire it? (as related previously in these pages)
                  Was the Navy 20mm on the back of a Toyota pick up .
                  Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                    Every Air Corps pilot ( and the drogue operator in the back) who flew the drogue towing Cessnas will tell you of close calls from over enthusiastic gunners, so it is not a myth. Also, when the RAF used Meteors to tow drogues for air to air gunnery, way back when, several came back with holes in them from close calls............if the DF have shown that they can fire from Galley Head, in a competent fashion, why was it necessary to bring a Navy 20mm on a platform all the way to the Glen to fire it? (as related previously in these pages)

                    That was test firing of a weapon before it was returned to its unit after major maintainence.

                    Vessel itself was in refit.

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                    • #25
                      that's fair enough, being just out of overhaul, but why drag it all the way to the Glen if Galley Head is nearby?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                        that's fair enough, being just out of overhaul, but why drag it all the way to the Glen if Galley Head is nearby?

                        Lot of hassle to fire one weapon. Deploy target, close danger area, enforce exclusion zone requires a ship. Permission to use private land etc etc.

                        Easier to use the Glen.

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                        • #27
                          true dat. didn't think about that!

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                          • #28
                            anyone come across any video of the shoot? You'd think the PR boys would have been wetting themselves in anticipation of a new DF video.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Tempest View Post
                              anyone come across any video of the shoot? You'd think the PR boys would have been wetting themselves in anticipation of a new DF video.
                              Yeah.There is one up on IKON.
                              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                              • #30
                                Having it on ICON goes against the "P" in PR.
                                For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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