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  1. #1
    Lt General
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    ARW F350 due for replacement?

    How about this ?

    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  2. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    More limited payload?

  3. #3
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    I think was they were trying to say is the vehicle is designed to fit in the limited payload of a transport aircraft.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  4. #4
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    I think was they were trying to say is the vehicle is designed to fit in the limited payload of a transport aircraft.
    Which effects it’s payload

  5. #5
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    seems to seat more than the F350
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  6. #6
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    The vehicle is the Jankel Fox RRV which itself is based upon the Toyota Hilux.
    http://www.jankel.com/fox-rapid-reaction-vehicle-rrv

    As far as I know it is quiet a bit smaller than the F350 and the payload is a lot smaller. There are a number of variants available and the Belgians are not the first in the EU to use a Hilux base for a SoV vehicle. The Czech Army have been using modified Hilux vehicles for some years now.

    However if the F350s are to be replaced then there are many better platforms available: Iveco make a SoV variant of the LMV, Thales has a SoV variant of their Hawkei and then there is the whole HMT range from Supercat. All these machines offer much better protection for the Balaclavas who as they themselves are high value assets we should want to protect a lot. They have better mine protection and much better payload capability. The Supercat HMT Extenda (can be 4x4 or 6x6) has been selected by NZ, Australia and Norway for their special forces. It has the advantage that the 6x6 can also replace the ACMAT trucks at the same time.

    When it is time to replace the F350s we should take our experience into account especially that from Chad.

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  8. #7
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EUFighter View Post
    The vehicle is the Jankel Fox RRV which itself is based upon the Toyota Hilux.
    http://www.jankel.com/fox-rapid-reaction-vehicle-rrv

    As far as I know it is quiet a bit smaller than the F350 and the payload is a lot smaller. There are a number of variants available and the Belgians are not the first in the EU to use a Hilux base for a SoV vehicle. The Czech Army have been using modified Hilux vehicles for some years now.

    However if the F350s are to be replaced then there are many better platforms available: Iveco make a SoV variant of the LMV, Thales has a SoV variant of their Hawkei and then there is the whole HMT range from Supercat. All these machines offer much better protection for the Balaclavas who as they themselves are high value assets we should want to protect a lot. They have better mine protection and much better payload capability. The Supercat HMT Extenda (can be 4x4 or 6x6) has been selected by NZ, Australia and Norway for their special forces. It has the advantage that the 6x6 can also replace the ACMAT trucks at the same time.

    When it is time to replace the F350s we should take our experience into account especially that from Chad.
    All the valuable Chad experience will be taken into account...then duely discarded and the ARW will end up with civvy pickups painted green. These civvy pickups will be much lauded as a special vehicle produced for the Irish especially. This also means that parts will cost a billion euro each and will spend most of their time in sheds.
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  10. #8
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    All the valuable Chad experience will be taken into account...then duely discarded and the ARW will end up with civvy pickups painted green. These civvy pickups will be much lauded as a special vehicle produced for the Irish especially. This also means that parts will cost a billion euro each and will spend most of their time in sheds.
    We have our Chad experience and we can see the experience of others in Afganistan and now in Mali. Most are going for purpose design vehilce and not the green pick-up, the vehilce of choice seems to be the Supercat HMT Extenda
    https://supacat.com/products/hmt/hmt-extenda/
    https://supacat.com/wp-content/uploa...7-17-small.pdf
    The Australian order was for 88 vehicles at a cost of $AUS103m (€65m). So 16 Extenda vehicles for the ARW would come to about €12m.
    Last edited by EUFighter; 23rd August 2018 at 09:26.

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  12. #9
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    I agree that international best practice is typically the soundest way forward, don't get me wrong. I'm just very wary of the bean counters and the "shur it'll be grand" brigade.
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  14. #10
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Were the ARW unhappy with the Ford’s performance in Chad?

    Is the Supacat and similar in use as an SF vehicle or just Infantry/cav?

  15. #11
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    All the valuable Chad experience will be taken into account...then duely discarded and the ARW will end up with civvy pickups painted green. These civvy pickups will be much lauded as a special vehicle produced for the Irish especially. This also means that parts will cost a billion euro each and will spend most of their time in sheds.
    And can be retrofitted on a whim with VIP interiors and privacy screens :D
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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  17. #12
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Were the ARW unhappy with the Ford’s performance in Chad?

    Is the Supacat and similar in use as an SF vehicle or just Infantry/cav?
    The Australian, New Zealand and Norwegian vehicles are all in the SF version; the Extenda.

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  19. #13
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morpheus View Post
    And can be retrofitted on a whim with VIP interiors and privacy screens :D
    Doubt any VIPs want to travel in the current vehicles

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  21. #14
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Doubt any VIPs want to travel in the current vehicles
    Only when the ARW is pulling them out of trouble in somewhere like Chad or Mali because they ignored warnings and want a photo op with some unfriendly locals!

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