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  • #16
    Allowances for Reservists , and many other things, should have been dealt with by a revision of R5/R6/S7/A18 (Regulations) and R5 Admin Instrs since the 2012 Re-organisation * and,indeed, to deal with massive gaps in the 2005 re-org as well. A couple of amendments to the 1954 act would not hurt either.

    This should have reflected the current status of the Reserve and its relationship to the Permanent Force .

    It is nothing less than awful that 6 years later nothing has been done about this
    Last edited by trellheim; 6 April 2018, 14:13.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
      The reason I asked is because the information on the NSR page on military.ie states that "The NSR also carry out land based security duties at the Naval Base on Haulbowline Island, Cork. These duties are carried out at weekends and the reservists who carry them out are paid the standard Permanent Defence Force allowances for these duties".

      The site also mentions "Patrols are typically 2 or 3 weeks in duration. You will be paid for this training and also receive a sea going allowance". Seems to be a contradicting the actual practice then so!
      It your on full time training and it is authorised you are paid. It could be a single day or over 3 weeks depending on what your doing (everyone is more or less guaranteed they will get at least 7 days fulltime Training annually (if they are available))

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
        The reason I asked is because the information on the NSR page on military.ie states that "The NSR also carry out land based security duties at the Naval Base on Haulbowline Island, Cork. These duties are carried out at weekends and the reservists who carry them out are paid the standard Permanent Defence Force allowances for these duties".

        The site also mentions "Patrols are typically 2 or 3 weeks in duration. You will be paid for this training and also receive a sea going allowance". Seems to be a contradicting the actual practice then so!
        But you can't receive sea going allowance as you are not posted to the ship, you are on attachment and the NS has never paid PDA to those who are on attachment. To be posted you must be filling a recognised vacancy and be replacing a crew member who has been permanently been detached. Given the NSR members originating unit is his NSR unit and not the ship.. he can't be paid PDA.

        The other issue being that the time aboard ship is only creditable for PDA if the the ship is on a recognised patrol of fixed duration...ie time beyond Roches point and back, not sitting alongside . Back in my day Security allowances were not payable while on patrol, as in duties alongside sentries or QM, as you were actually 'at sea' and being paid PDA.

        Patrols are no longer two or three weekers!

        So who is getting the SDA in that case?
        No one.... if its not applied for its not paid, it remains in the budget, the unspent portion is returned to central funding at end of year.

        In fact it was never paid, there was a ban on the use of RDF for a security duties
        There was a period in Clonmel where man power was so tight the Res Cav squadron were doing all the mid week duties with and the 12Bn guys doing the weekends. We used to get a weeks camp , doing three guards in the week. Everyone was happy until someone outside the loop insisted on Sgt Guard Commanders instead of Cpls and the pool dried up. Got the Bn through a bind..and we all made a few quid. We gladly left the Bn guys do the weekends.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • #19
          Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          There was a period in Clonmel where man power was so tight the Res Cav squadron were doing all the mid week duties with and the 12Bn guys doing the weekends. We used to get a weeks camp , doing three guards in the week. Everyone was happy until someone outside the loop insisted on Sgt Guard Commanders instead of Cpls and the pool dried up. Got the Bn through a bind..and we all made a few quid. We gladly left the Bn guys do the weekends.
          27 Bn used to do it the other way around. One of the local FCA Lts was unemployed or on very reduced hours. He used to do a lot of the weekends

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          • #20
            Early 90s I was doing a couple per week in Fermoy ! getting paid on a daily basis how ever they managed that. I was on short time from my regular job 2 days per week, two Guards in Fermoy, I was making more than working full time.

            Saw me through the winter of 92/93.. eager trooper I was
            Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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            • #21
              I did similar in Limerick during the lean years of 2002, when I was between jobs. Two duties a week allowed the PDF to get involved in large scale exercises that the DF had up to that point not been able to achieve, moving a brigade as one to the ex area, tactically.
              Two on, two off, and a day as a sub. Kept the wolf from the door until I got a job.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                I did similar in Limerick during the lean years of 2002, when I was between jobs. Two duties a week allowed the PDF to get involved in large scale exercises that the DF had up to that point not been able to achieve, moving a brigade as one to the ex area, tactically.
                Two on, two off, and a day as a sub. Kept the wolf from the door until I got a job.
                Cork did the same in 2001.

                Cathal Brugha did the same in 2004.

                I think it should be done again now. DF is so understrength that lads are doing nothing but duties. Exercises only happen during an MRE at this stage

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                • #23
                  The difference is, in this time of relative economic strength, is there anough members of the reserve with the spare time fo give the commitment? That is before we go down the road of mandays etc.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • #24
                    My location has a set (not unambitous) target for Duties completed by RDF by quarter and year since Q3 2017

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Fantasia View Post
                      Cork did the same in 2001.

                      Cathal Brugha did the same in 2004.

                      I think it should be done again now. DF is so understrength that lads are doing nothing but duties. Exercises only happen during an MRE at this stage
                      Yeah...sorry I'd like to give you a dig out again......but I'm no longer serving
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                        Yeah...sorry I'd like to give you a dig out again......but I'm no longer serving
                        Serving is the thing. All personnel in uniform, and at a particular rank, should slot in, and be capable of doing the job at the same rates and allowances of the rank. Treating reserves as dogsbody's on exclusive lower rates is an embarrassment and a perpetuation of the FEMPI conditions long since passed.
                        The big difficulty is the NSR and it's history. We failed to train or use them as sailors. They could be fully marinised in a 8 week course hitting all the key essentials to be done, particularily at sea . We lack a certain amount of vision not realising that personnel in sailors uniforms should be capable of going to sea. NSR officers could act as bridge watch keepers after 1 week GMDSS course, 1 week rule of the road, 1 week chartwork, and 2 weeks basic stitching it together on board a training desig. ship. In 1992 I recommended that they(SM) be used or disbanded.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by ancientmariner View Post
                          Serving is the thing. All personnel in uniform, and at a particular rank, should slot in, and be capable of doing the job at the same rates and allowances of the rank. Treating reserves as dogsbody's on exclusive lower rates is an embarrassment and a perpetuation of the FEMPI conditions long since passed.
                          The big difficulty is the NSR and it's history. We failed to train or use them as sailors. They could be fully marinised in a 8 week course hitting all the key essentials to be done, particularily at sea . We lack a certain amount of vision not realising that personnel in sailors uniforms should be capable of going to sea. NSR officers could act as bridge watch keepers after 1 week GMDSS course, 1 week rule of the road, 1 week chartwork, and 2 weeks basic stitching it together on board a training desig. ship. In 1992 I recommended that they(SM) be used or disbanded.
                          This is now the case I believe. WHile the NSR cannot fill appointments at sea, they can slot in to do most of the job required.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                          • #28
                            I'm assuming doing security duties down at the Naval Base would only really be a goer for the Cork and Waterford units anyway.

                            It's quite a trek from Dublin and Limerick and you'd see any pay benefit eaten up by fuel and tolls!

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                              I'm assuming doing security duties down at the Naval Base would only really be a goer for the Cork and Waterford units anyway.

                              It's quite a trek from Dublin and Limerick and you'd see any pay benefit eaten up by fuel and tolls!
                              Almost the same distance from Haulbowline to Limerick as it is from Haulbowline to Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatrfurt.
                              (135km to Blaa, excellent roads, 125km to the Treaty, OK roads)
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • #30
                                I'm never down in Waterford. I always assume it's a lot closer to Cork than it actually is and I guess Haulbowline requires the long drive around! Still though - relatively long drive to both places!

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