Thanks Thanks:  6
Likes Likes:  4
Dislikes Dislikes:  0
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,057
    Post Thanks / Like

    New British Army Fitness tests

    Just thought this might be of interest.
    New Physical Employment standards(PES) for personnel employed in the Ground Close Combat role(GCC) in the UK. PT tests for supporting arms staying the same.
    Might be the way to go ourselves.I always thought it a little bit mad that we do a Combat Fitness test(LIFE test Pt 3) with no Personal weapon.
    lntroducing that measure alone would be a step in the right direction IMHO.

    http://www.joint-forces.com/uk-news/...ards-in-detail
    Last edited by apod; 24th September 2018 at 20:27.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  2. Thanks Flamingo thanked for this post
  3. #2
    Lt General
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,276
    Post Thanks / Like
    I hear there is no difference in test for males or females. The question is, (from the outside P.C. world) are the levels lowered to allow females, or raised to exclude them?
    Or is it a case of you just needing to be fit enough to do the job regardless. The decision is causing quite a stir.
    The physical teats are real worldly though, something all soldiers would be expected to be able to do, regardless of build or gender.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  4. Thanks Flamingo thanked for this post
  5. #3
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    3,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    It looks sensible. I wish it had been there in my day, as I could go all day carrying anything, 4k with 40kg would have been no problem, but I HATED running, and noticed that the racing snakes who were at the front of the line with the running (and lauded as such) were the ones who, in the field, really struggled to carry, lift, and generally do any more than look lean and mean.

    I remember on more than one occasion when loading 4 tonnes saying to a racing snakes "On three, you grunt, I'll lift"!
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  6. Likes apod, hptmurphy liked this post
  7. #4
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    It is much more resource and time intensive

  8. #5
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    3,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It is much more resource and time intensive
    It does seem to be. I'm thinking it would be quite time-intensive for a reserve unit to in a weekend.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  9. #6
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It is much more resource and time intensive
    So?? Does that mean the DF should never move to a vocation specific test?? If the ARW can manage to run a broader ranged test what is to stop the Infantry,Cav and Arty?? It used to be the case that there were more stringent pre deployment fitness tests ( a palette of which actually) that had to be completed by British Troops during their PDT. We don't do that. LIFE test Pt1,2 and 3 and you are good to go.No matter the mission. Crazy.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  10. Likes ODIN liked this post
  11. #7
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    So?? Does that mean the DF should never move to a vocation specific test?? If the ARW can manage to run a broader ranged test what is to stop the Infantry,Cav and Arty?? It used to be the case that there were more stringent pre deployment fitness tests ( a palette of which actually) that had to be completed by British Troops during their PDT. We don't do that. LIFE test Pt1,2 and 3 and you are good to go.No matter the mission. Crazy.
    There is a big difference between extra tests for maybe 120 ARW and say 30 divers and extra tests for > 9,000 personnel

    They were looking at adding additional LME exercises and doing much bigger variations on Part 3 (think it was something like a 1 mile combats only, then a mile with BV, then add patrol pack, etc etc

  12. #8
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    There is a big difference between extra tests for maybe 120 ARW and say 30 divers and extra tests for > 9,000 personnel

    They were looking at adding additional LME exercises and doing much bigger variations on Part 3 (think it was something like a 1 mile combats only, then a mile with BV, then add patrol pack, etc etc
    There aren't 9,000 troops in the Combat arms. Break down the strength of the Army and you see that. Infantry is the biggest Corps but still nowhere near that figure.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  13. #9
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    There aren't 9,000 troops in the Combat arms. Break down the strength of the Army and you see that. Infantry is the biggest Corps but still nowhere near that figure.
    CSS would need additional appropriate ones too

  14. #10
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    dublin
    Posts
    1,306
    Post Thanks / Like
    new BA tests look similar to the new US army fitness tests also.
    https://www.military.com/daily-news/...wake-call.html
    much more emphasis on functional fitnes and strength also.
    defintely a good move on both organisations behalf to get rid of gender and age specifics......they just give false positive results in comparision to real world fitness requirements.
    Dev, no reason why something similar couldn't be implemented here for both PDF and reserve units. just needs the will and some concentrated logistics effort. afterall the numbers involved in the DF are tiny compared to either the BA or US army.
    Last edited by X-RayOne; 25th September 2018 at 10:18.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqus are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  15. #11
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    Dev, no reason why something similar couldn't be implemented here for both PDF and reserve units. just needs the will and some concentrated logistics effort. afterall the numbers involved in the DF are tiny compared to either the BA or US army.
    Except you know those guys meeting themselves coming back on all there taskings.... now 1 of them (ITs) will take longer

    It depends on what was added, if additional LMEs (eg plank, chin ups, dips etc) they require minimal additional equipment, set up time etc. It’s we went down the functional route a lot more resources are required.

    I’m not saying that it couldn’t or shouldn’t be done .... but as ever there are implications

  16. #12
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Last edited by apod; 25th September 2018 at 20:56.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  17. #13
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Over the water
    Posts
    3,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

  18. #14
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    dublin
    Posts
    1,306
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Except you know those guys meeting themselves coming back on all there taskings.... now 1 of them (ITs) will take longer

    It depends on what was added, if additional LMEs (eg plank, chin ups, dips etc) they require minimal additional equipment, set up time etc. It’s we went down the functional route a lot more resources are required.

    I’m not saying that it couldn’t or shouldn’t be done .... but as ever there are implications
    You've not made a decent arguement yet for not introducing something more appropriate for annual fitness tests......just a negative sounding response something along the lines of "it'll take too long.....it's too much hassle to pull the extra gear together"

    both of which are untrue considerations.....

    BA changing march part however all that is different is the scales of webbing everybody is already issued with and adding personel weapon. No shortages of any of that ckit currently. just sign out weapons / bring webbing to ITs.

    Both BA and US army using the simplest weights for LME exercises....bar bells in a skip bag for drags, kettlebells, medicine balls, metal bar for chin ups.....no shortage of any of that kit in any have decent barrack gym nowadays.

    Everybody is busy with duties, taskings, etc. that is true...but everybody knows they have an annual fitness test, annual range practice and days allocated for each every year. no problem there either.

    the negative attitude to something that could serve to improve actual and functional fitness levels, pride and effectiveness of our soldiers is the most disappointing thing unfortunately.
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqus are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

  19. #15
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,179
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by X-RayOne View Post
    You've not made a decent arguement yet for not introducing something more appropriate for annual fitness tests......just a negative sounding response something along the lines of "it'll take too long.....it's too much hassle to pull the extra gear together"

    both of which are untrue considerations.....

    BA changing march part however all that is different is the scales of webbing everybody is already issued with and adding personel weapon. No shortages of any of that ckit currently. just sign out weapons / bring webbing to ITs.

    Both BA and US army using the simplest weights for LME exercises....bar bells in a skip bag for drags, kettlebells, medicine balls, metal bar for chin ups.....no shortage of any of that kit in any have decent barrack gym nowadays.

    Everybody is busy with duties, taskings, etc. that is true...but everybody knows they have an annual fitness test, annual range practice and days allocated for each every year. no problem there either.

    the negative attitude to something that could serve to improve actual and functional fitness levels, pride and effectiveness of our soldiers is the most disappointing thing unfortunately.
    Is there enough of the kit in the guy to allow 10 people to do it at the same time and in every gym?
    Do they all have the space?

    I’m not against it I would actually question if some of the US military ones are representative



    My point about the amount of time it will take is that jobs are being rushed, done incorrectly or not being done, things that effect people’s careers (eg admin). There aren’t enough hours in the day for a lot of people.

    I’m not anti progression with this type of thing:
    - the necessary resources are in place to allow large numbers to be done at one time
    - the soldier is treated right (from pay, admin, medicals etc)
    - sufficient capable soldiers are retained

  20. #16
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Duff links
    Feck. Pity.Dunno what went wrong there.Well worth looking for on that site though.Plenty of the background on the new tests.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  21. Thanks Flamingo thanked for this post
    Likes Flamingo liked this post
  22. #17
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,179
    Post Thanks / Like

  23. Thanks Flamingo thanked for this post
  24. #18
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,057
    Post Thanks / Like
    No.My links were for the two interview videos at the bottom of the Defence imagery page.Dunno why they didn't work but hey ho.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  25. Thanks DeV, Flamingo thanked for this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •