Adequacy of Irish Ports

[trellheim]

TEN-T exclusion for French ports is a Brexit thing IIRC as correctly it will be mayhem so thats why Zeebrugge etc got the cash

[na grohmití]

Yes, it is feared that the French ports would become over congested as freight and passengers await customs and immigration controls.

[ancientmariner]

Of interest to current and future Naval operations is the adequacy of Irish ports to support general Naval deployments and operations. In the National Maritime policy documents and Harbour Acts together with the Mission of the Irish Maritime Development Office there is no mention of the existence of a navy and it's deployment needs in peace or war.
There is also no mention of the need to provide for repair and maintenance of ships or the need to nurture and encourage a shipbuilding industry. In general our ports are in catharsis, getting rid of elements of traditional port usages , abandoning port areas to developers, and making little effort to provide for redacted facilities.
In a nut shell we need ports not dependent on tides or lock gates, with unobstructed quay walls with depths ranging from 5m LWS to 12m LWS to accommodate most trades or visiting ships including Naval vessels.
I was impressed to see the devlopment of Killybegs harbour with sufficient deep water berthage at 12m LWS to have TWO Cruise liners alongside, at the same time, and surprised not to see it listed as important in Government documents outlining the pecking order of Ports.
Our Port development needs more control and oversight to maintain use by all types of ships and cargo including liquids. Care must be taken not to allow preemptive decisions that may exclude traditional use or exclude public access to visiting Naval Vessels

We are now in the midst of Seminars on marine Spatial planning. There is always a worry that it does NOT mean better for ships, ports, maintenance or expansion. The Irish register for ships is an interesting document made up of vessels that ploy regularly around an island country such as FV's, ferries, Ro-ro's and some coasters. They expanded it in 2014 to include Jet-skies, other recreational craft, ghillie boats, visitors craft, and most anything that moves on water. The idea is a renewable register every ten years with fines for non-compliance, as a fee is payable for registration.It will be policed by all state officials including Naval Officers and Irish Coast Guard. We pick hanging fruit but close down drydocks, shipbuilding and repair.
The latest proposal is to spend E 300m to create a super container transshipment port in the Shannon Estuary and use it as a feeder service for smaller ships to other ports. Shannon is a weather port, exposed to the S'Westerlies, and plugged by a narrow Beal bar entrance. You need to be sure of many things including safe waiting anchorages for involved ships.
Finally in the documents surrounding the Irish register there are NO worldwide Irish flagged ships included.

[TangoSierra]

https://www.independent.ie/life/trav...-37639011.html

Further consolidation of everything to Dublin!

[DeV]

https://www.independent.ie/life/trav...-37639011.html

Further consolidation of everything to Dublin!

The stupidity

[na grohmití]

https://www.independent.ie/life/trav...-37639011.html

Further consolidation of everything to Dublin!

Or:
Great news for Brittany Ferries who recently expanded their routes from Cork, sailing twice weekly to both France* and Spain. (*France summer season only, Spain all year round)

Rosslare to Cherbourg with Irish Ferries was 18 hours.
Dublin to Cherbourg 19 hours Weekly.
Stena, Rosslare to Cherbourg 3 times a week 17 hours duration.
Brittany ferries, Cork to Roscoff is 16 hours, twice a week.

I'd be willing to suggest that the delays to the new cruise ferry has hit the pocket hard, and Brexit may see extra costs on the UK routes, so Irish Ferries have made an economic decision to close a route that was not competitive. The ship serving Rosslare-Pembroke was due to be replaced with the ship that currently operates from Dublin was due to move to Rosslare as the new WB Yeats in turn replaced the ship that was then to operate the shorter route to france from Rosslare. I'd be willing to further suggest that they will shortly offer more routes on the costier UK route. Price increases will merely be put down to "Brexit", and the sheep will pay. They may even sell one of the ships out of service completely. A healthy market for second hand ferries at present.


Irish Ferries have been operating without any integrity or loyalty to its irish customers since it chose to dump the Irish port of registry for its fleet, which are now registered in Cyprus. It ditched its irish crew around the same time, instead now employing crews who do not work under EU rules regarding pay and conditions of employment. Its newest vessel is due to arrive, finally, from the builders to Rosslare tomorrow.

[CTU]

I'd be willing to suggest that the delays to the new cruise ferry has hit the pocket hard, and Brexit may see extra costs on the UK routes, so Irish Ferries have made an economic decision to close a route that was not competitive. The ship serving Rosslare-Pembroke was due to be replaced with the ship that currently operates from Dublin was due to move to Rosslare as the new WB Yeats in turn replaced the ship that was then to operate the shorter route to france from Rosslare. I'd be willing to further suggest that they will shortly offer more routes on the costier UK route. Price increases will merely be put down to "Brexit", and the sheep will pay. They may even sell one of the ships out of service completely. A healthy market for second hand ferries at present.

I thought the plan was for the New Vessel "WB Yeats" to replace the "Epsilon" (which is on charter) on the Dublin - Holyhead / Dublin - France routes Until their Planned Second New Vessel (which they have an option on) would come on stream to do this Dublin - France all year round with the WB Yeats then going full time on Dublin - Holyhead along with the Ulysses to match Stena's capacity on the route. It seems they now plan on the new vessel doing Dublin - France full time and keep the Epsilon on Dublin - Holyhead route with Ulysses until they make their mind up on the proposed Second new vessel.

If you read between the line in the Tweets they sent about it looks like they made this decision based on what the freight companies wanted while keeping their options open with Brexit and are ignoring the passenger's who seem to prefer the Rosslare Route.

[DeV]

Or:
Great news for Brittany Ferries who recently expanded their routes from Cork, sailing twice weekly to both France* and Spain. (*France summer season only, Spain all year round)

Rosslare to Cherbourg with Irish Ferries was 18 hours.
Dublin to Cherbourg 19 hours Weekly.
Stena, Rosslare to Cherbourg 3 times a week 17 hours duration.
Brittany ferries, Cork to Roscoff is 16 hours, twice a week.

I'd be willing to suggest that the delays to the new cruise ferry has hit the pocket hard, and Brexit may see extra costs on the UK routes, so Irish Ferries have made an economic decision to close a route that was not competitive. The ship serving Rosslare-Pembroke was due to be replaced with the ship that currently operates from Dublin was due to move to Rosslare as the new WB Yeats in turn replaced the ship that was then to operate the shorter route to france from Rosslare. I'd be willing to further suggest that they will shortly offer more routes on the costier UK route. Price increases will merely be put down to "Brexit", and the sheep will pay. They may even sell one of the ships out of service completely. A healthy market for second hand ferries at present.


Irish Ferries have been operating without any integrity or loyalty to its irish customers since it chose to dump the Irish port of registry for its fleet, which are now registered in Cyprus. It ditched its irish crew around the same time, instead now employing crews who do not work under EU rules regarding pay and conditions of employment. Its newest vessel is due to arrive, finally, from the builders to Rosslare tomorrow.

The more route options and services the better

Especially if the land bridge is restricted/causes delays

[Laners]

The new ship is scheduled for an 18 hour crossing from Dublin to Cherbourg

[ancientmariner]

The new ship is scheduled for an 18 hour crossing from Dublin to Cherbourg

most of the Directors of Irish Ferries are "bean counters" FCA, ACA, ACCA, with the job of maintaining cash and NOT tradition or reliability. There is NO salt water or National pride. It harbingers the demise of most companies when they get loose. Flag out and Crew out.!!

[Bravo20]

If you read between the line in the Tweets they sent about it looks like they made this decision based on what the freight companies wanted while keeping their options open with Brexit and are ignoring the passenger's who seem to prefer the Rosslare Route.

The freight companies don't seem to be too happy about this either. There was a representative of the road hauliers association on the radio this morning complaining about this and was wondering which customers they actually asked.

From my own companies point of view we ship all our goods to Europe via Rosslare and are anticipating a decrease in availability due to an increase in demand for this route post Brexit.

This does not make sense from a business point of view. Very short sighted.

[ancientmariner]

The freight companies don't seem to be too happy about this either. There was a representative of the road hauliers association on the radio this morning complaining about this and was wondering which customers they actually asked.

From my own companies point of view we ship all our goods to Europe via Rosslare and are anticipating a decrease in availability due to an increase in demand for this route post Brexit.

This does not make sense from a business point of view. Very short sighted.

My mother said there is always a reason behind every telegraphed choice. Since this company is short on Maritime Sensibility they may have made wrong ship choice in choosing new tonnage. Perhaps the ships in question don't fit Rosslare facilities. Pity, after the State built up the port to suit ICL as it was then.

[CTU]

Looking on the announcement on twitter all they have said is that it is "unlikely" to run in 2019 but they are keeping it "under review" so I am coming to the conclusion that thanks to the delays with the new ship that they can't crew all the ships so are sacrificing the Oscar Wilde.

I wouldn't be surprised if come easter time they will announce the the Epsilon will take over Rosslare - France with the WB Yeats doing Dublin - Holyhead during the week and Dublin - France at the weekend (like the Epsilon has been doing the last few years) until they make a decision on the second new vessel they have the option on. Whatever happens I would say the Oscar Wilde time is coming to an end.

[DeV]

most of the Directors of Irish Ferries are "bean counters" FCA, ACA, ACCA, with the job of maintaining cash and NOT tradition or reliability. There is NO salt water or National pride. It harbingers the demise of most companies when they get loose. Flag out and Crew out.!!

Tradition has no place in this type of decision.

Supply and demand does.... if anything demand is likely to increase so it seems to be a very strange suggestion .... unless there are operational reasons or something more .... let’s be kind and say suggestive

Are they looking for something to be subsidised, grants, investment, a PSO on the route etc





Stena do a 3 times a week service to Cherbourg from Rosslare

According to the Irish Ferries website they aren’t currently sailing to France from Rosslare (could be just the week that is in it or is it seasonal?)?

Neptune Lines also offer a weekly Rosslare-France-UK-Spain service (appears to be for oversized cargo, cars etc) http://www.neptunelines.com/article/...uk-and-ireland

[spider]

You may have seen this website...its anoraky but he puts a lot of work into it...

https://www.niferry.co.uk/

He seems pretty well informed on the comings and goings of Irish Sea Ferries.

[ancientmariner]

Tradition has no place in this type of decision.

Supply and demand does.... if anything demand is likely to increase so it seems to be a very strange suggestion .... unless there are operational reasons or something more .... let’s be kind and say suggestive

Are they looking for something to be subsidised, grants, investment, a PSO on the route etc





Stena do a 3 times a week service to Cherbourg from Rosslare

According to the Irish Ferries website they aren’t currently sailing to France from Rosslare (could be just the week that is in it or is it seasonal?)?

Neptune Lines also offer a weekly Rosslare-France-UK-Spain service (appears to be for oversized cargo, cars etc) http://www.neptunelines.com/article/...uk-and-ireland

The ship they are selling, or have sold, is logistical imbalanced , too many foot passengers, and not enough vehicle space. Decisions on viability of ships is crucial . Cash rich companies, managed by financiers, saw demise of those companies , often by buying "Deal ships" , like Blue Funnel and Irish Shipping to mention Two.
We are an Island country about to be isolated to a standard comparable to the emergency. Who will determine our needs and fulfill the demand . In wartime it was a consortium of Old traditional shipping companies and a Master Mariner from Reardon Smiths John O'Neill. What now!!

[ancientmariner]

The ship they are selling, or have sold, is logistical imbalanced , too many foot passengers, and not enough vehicle space. Decisions on viability of ships is crucial . Cash rich companies, managed by financiers, saw demise of those companies , often by buying "Deal ships" , like Blue Funnel and Irish Shipping to mention Two.
We are an Island country about to be isolated to a standard comparable to the emergency. Who will determine our needs and fulfill the demand . In wartime it was a consortium of Old traditional shipping companies and a Master Mariner from Reardon Smiths John O'Neill. What now!!

Just noticed "Log In " time of my msg. is 1116 which is + 1 hr?? Is there a clock on the site?

[EUFighter]

The ship they are selling, or have sold, is logistical imbalanced , too many foot passengers, and not enough vehicle space. Decisions on viability of ships is crucial . Cash rich companies, managed by financiers, saw demise of those companies , often by buying "Deal ships" , like Blue Funnel and Irish Shipping to mention Two.
We are an Island country about to be isolated to a standard comparable to the emergency. Who will determine our needs and fulfill the demand . In wartime it was a consortium of Old traditional shipping companies and a Master Mariner from Reardon Smiths John O'Neill. What now!!

Plus the Oscar Wilde is now 31 years old so coming to the end of its useful service life serving north European markets.
It will be interesting to see if Seatruck moves any ship from cross-channel routes to more direct routes to mainland Europe.

[na grohmití]

Just noticed "Log In " time of my msg. is 1116 which is + 1 hr?? Is there a clock on the site?

Current site time is 17.42

[DeV]

Foynes plans LoLo from next year
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...41659?mode=amp

[ancientmariner]

Foynes plans LoLo from next year
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...41659?mode=amp

In order to make Foynes a major container port the State would have to reclaim lands to the N'eastrly side of the present bulk berths. Install harbour infrastructure and handling facilities, dredge the northern mud blockages to create an entry channel in the South and an exit to the Northern side of Foynes Island. The road out of Foynes has a number of small fixed bridges over streams and would need to be certified suitable for continuous road container traffic. I think the visualisation of the proponents would take investments close to a billion+ to achieve. In any event, whatever is decided , it should be on the East Bank of the river to save dragging cargo through Limerick.

[na grohmití]

Any Movement on the LNG terminal outside Tarbert by the way?
Foynes has a lot going for it, but the infastructure around LoLo is not something that just appears overnight. The Road to foynes is particularly unsuitable for large volumes of heavy traffic that comes with LoLo. Combine that with the reluctance of the main carriers to travel too far from the main shipping lanes, even when loading and discharging.
Bellview lost out because it was too far from the sea. Port of Cork is moving downstream to deal with the same issue. Ships are getting bigger but times are getting tighter too for turnaround.
Their only hope is to entice the Transatlantic lines to divert up the shannon en route to and from European ports.

[DeV]

A weekly LoLo feeder to another European ocean vessel port would be a major start

[ancientmariner]

A weekly LoLo feeder to another European ocean vessel port would be a major start

The major European ports for services from Ireland would be ROTTERDAM or FELIXSTOWE. If we were considering an Irish Port as a feeder to a variety of European container ports then we should be aiming to get vessels, otherwise heading to Europe, to land in Ireland for feeding on to the continent, ideally by Irish ships. I did a little stint on MV Wicklow taking containers from Dublin to Rotterdam . They also had the KILKENNY until it collided with an outbound container vessel HASSELWERDER. Right now we have nothing but we still plan on the assumption that someone else will do it for us. The Governments stated policy on port development is Laissez-faire on projects or fit them with financial brakes that makes them meaningless .

[na grohmití]

Any chance we could convince Arklow Shipping to start operating container ships? They seem to be doing well in the Bulk trade, and still maintain Irish Flag and Port of registry on most of their fleet.