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  • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
    I thought from the outset the RDFRA were not permitted (by statute) to negotiate on matters relating to pay and operational matters.
    Operational matters, yes, but that has never stopped them in the past.

    Pay - rate of pay, yes, not being paid the right amount - No.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Poiuyt View Post
      Operational matters, yes, but that has never stopped them in the past.

      Pay - rate of pay, yes, not being paid the right amount - No.
      Unless the lower rate is the 'right amount' according to the DoD.

      I'll be interested to see where this goes anyway. I've heard nothing material back anyway.

      Comment


      • Pay is right in the centre of matters in scope for representation under Schedule II of S7
        "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

        "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

        Comment


        • Well the issue has made it to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on .... Defence

          Comment


          • The Department has been instructed by the Minister to “ensure the correct pay restoration is applied to both AR and NSR... to have this matter expedited as soon as possible I understand this is a matter of urgency”

            Defence Forces Reserve Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 13 June 2019





            @Auldsod you have done the RDF some service .... thank you!

            Any chance of you getting on the case of some other issues???

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              The Department has been instructed by the Minister to “ensure the correct pay restoration is applied to both AR and NSR... to have this matter expedited as soon as possible I understand this is a matter of urgency”

              Defence Forces Reserve Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 13 June 2019





              @Auldsod you have done the RDF some service .... thank you!

              Any chance of you getting on the case of some other issues???
              It's not over until its actually been implimented. Highly doubt there will be anything back dated either.

              I'll see if I can apply my calculator and excel spreadsheets to recruitment, paid training days and authorisation for reservists to go on foreign deployments!

              Comment


              • Recruitment depends on the unit and formation, NSR have got it down to 44 days from close of applications to attestation (swearing in). Requires time and effort by PDF and RDF.

                Mandays? RDF SSOs (Lt Cols/Comdt in Bde) have the power to sanction up to 28 days. Again effort required by RDF.

                Overseas is prevented by law, requires the word Permanent to be deleted from the Defence Act

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  Recruitment depends on the unit and formation, NSR have got it down to 44 days from close of applications to attestation (swearing in). Requires time and effort by PDF and RDF.

                  Mandays? RDF SSOs (Lt Cols/Comdt in Bde) have the power to sanction up to 28 days. Again effort required by RDF.

                  Overseas is prevented by law, requires the word Permanent to be deleted from the Defence Act
                  I was making my comment in jest! Just articulating that the issues above won't be solved so easily with a bit of calculation!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                    I was making my comment in jest! Just articulating that the issues above won't be solved so easily with a bit of calculation!
                    I know ????

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                    • Has anyone an up-to-date copy of R5 - By which I mean up-to-date from at least this year. Pay is set in that document.
                      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

                      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

                      Comment


                      • Assuming this will need a change to R5 or at least wording in it that will directly link pay to the pdf equivalent with whatever adjustments (like the 10% reduction).

                        Also, I'd appreciate a copy of R5 too if anyone has a copy.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                          Has anyone an up-to-date copy of R5 - By which I mean up-to-date from at least this year. Pay is set in that document.
                          There currently us no up to date R5. Only the R5 from pre re-org exists in an effective form. A new R5 is still in the works but has not been publicised and is not relevant until it becomes effective.
                          Scheduled fun will commence at 1900Hrs.
                          Punishment beatings will continue until moral improves.

                          Comment


                          • Forgive my ignorance but is R5 a document that can be amended by the DoD or does it require legislation?

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                              Forgive my ignorance but is R5 a document that can be amended by the DoD or does it require legislation?
                              R5 is a DFR (open to correction) and while it is open to amendment, it is not a living document thats updated in real time. The fact that it hasnt been updated and published is the biggest problem with the reorg in my opinion.
                              Scheduled fun will commence at 1900Hrs.
                              Punishment beatings will continue until moral improves.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                                Has anyone an up-to-date copy of R5 - By which I mean up-to-date from at least this year. Pay is set in that document.
                                I last checked R5 about a month or 2 ago and there have been no amendments of note in approx 3 years

                                Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                                Assuming this will need a change to R5 or at least wording in it that will directly link pay to the pdf equivalent with whatever adjustments (like the 10% reduction).

                                Also, I'd appreciate a copy of R5 too if anyone has a copy.
                                Well here's the thing........ R5 states that refer to DFR S3 for rates of RDF pay rates (which as far as I know haven't been amended to take account of the 10%) and to paraphrase R5 we are supposed to get exactly the same as the PDF (ie no 10% reduction).

                                Originally posted by AC182 View Post
                                There currently us no up to date R5. Only the R5 from pre re-org exists in an effective form. A new R5 is still in the works but has not been publicised and is not relevant until it becomes effective.
                                Originally posted by Auldsod View Post
                                Forgive my ignorance but is R5 a document that can be amended by the DoD or does it require legislation?
                                Originally posted by AC182 View Post
                                R5 is a DFR (open to correction) and while it is open to amendment, it is not a living document thats updated in real time. The fact that it hasnt been updated and published is the biggest problem with the reorg in my opinion.
                                There is always an up to date R5..... it is just a lot of amendments are required (..... and haven't been made)


                                The watefall of legislation is as follows (ignoring case law etc):

                                - Bunreacht na hEireann (can only be amended by referendum)

                                - Defence Acts 1954-2015 (can only be amended by the Oireachtas and must be signed by the President), this is primary legislation

                                - Defence Force Regulation (can only be amended by the Department of Defence and must be signed by the Minister of Defence), can only be made where the Defence Acts specifically allow the Minister to make Regulations, this is secondary legislation (or a Statutory Instrument)

                                - Admin/Logs Instructions of DFR - in this case we are talking Admin Instruction R5 (not 100% sure who drafts this but I assume DFHQ as it must be signed by Deputy Chief of Staff (Support) (DCOS (Sp)), can only made where the DFR specifically allows DCOS (Sp) to make regulations

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