Thanks Thanks:  31
Likes Likes:  46
Dislikes Dislikes:  5
Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 127

Thread: RDF pay

  1. #76
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,791
    Post Thanks / Like
    Can you take a redress against a civil servant (as they control pay rates)?
    You redress your Company Commander in the first instance unless its him your complaining about, in any event but DOD personnel are under the control of the Minister and so can be the subject of a complaint under redress procedures ( or so I have been told ) .


    Nothing to stop you putting in a redress, its your right to do so, and if you follow the exact proper procedure the MA are obliged to follow the rules in investigating same.

    While youre there any thought of answering a,b,c above ?
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  2. #77
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,986
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    You redress your Company Commander in the first instance unless its him your complaining about, in any event but DOD personnel are under the control of the Minister and so can be the subject of a complaint under redress procedures ( or so I have been told ) .


    Nothing to stop you putting in a redress, its your right to do so, and if you follow the exact proper procedure the MA are obliged to follow the rules in investigating same.

    While youre there any thought of answering a,b,c above ?
    So in that case you’d be redressing the Minister ?

    I’m not sure what you meant in your post? As in S3 wasn’t amended to take account of pay increases/decreases you mean?

    The amendment you posted deals with forfeitures from pay due to court marshal

  3. #78
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,791
    Post Thanks / Like
    no you redress your company commander

    In writing and via Cpl/Sgt/CS as appropriate

    To Company Commander A Coy 355th Inf Bn

    Sir I am 1052222 Pte Murphy P under "insert exact redress verbiage - theres a specific form of words to be used here to open the lock" my pay is not correct as per R5 , and S3 etc etc. signed

    You redress a wrong not a person ;

    to the other point
    The amendment you posted deals with forfeitures from pay due to court marshal
    - yes it does. As I said, the subject for the amendment does not matter and should be ignored mostly ( i.e. courtmartials are not relevant here ) This is all about process.

    OK lets row back.

    As I asked - why is that amendment available from that search link ? Let me ask it differently ? What is the common characteristic of any documents available from that search facility. Answer : They have all been "Laid Before the Oireachtas" - that is the only reason.

    So.... why have they been laid before the Oireachtas ... the answer is in Post 72 towards the end. Have a look and tell me what you think. (we'll come back to b and c later )


    by the way this is all perfectly applicable to the PDF, S3 (PDF and RDF) and R5/R6 (RDF) all deal with Pay and Gratuities - what do people think the legal basis for them being paid is ?
    Last edited by trellheim; 4th December 2018 at 19:28.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  4. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  5. #79
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,986
    Post Thanks / Like
    RDFRA had a meeting with Mil C&A last week (I think) not sure if it was discussed but don’t think it was the forum for it

    I know as fact that RDFRA are progressing this issue

  6. #80
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    The Big Smoke
    Posts
    5,249
    Post Thanks / Like
    It should be brought up at both Mil and Civ C&A

  7. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
  8. #81
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,791
    Post Thanks / Like
    For clarity I have been reading the FEMPI acts and am starting to see the light. Somebody crossread with me . FEMPI 2009 http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/...evised/en/html ( and the other FEMPI acts ) and the 2017 pay act.

    Very importantly PDF are covered by FEMPI but RDF are specifically not mentioned.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  9. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
  10. #82
    C/S Auldsod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Wesht
    Posts
    486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    For clarity I have been reading the FEMPI acts and am starting to see the light. Somebody crossread with me . FEMPI 2009 http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/...evised/en/html ( and the other FEMPI acts ) and the 2017 pay act.

    Very importantly PDF are covered by FEMPI but RDF are specifically not mentioned.
    I'll try and find some time to read later in the week. The above makes sense. RDF pay is separate to PDF pay rather than pegged to it legislatively speaking which is the source of the issue. I'd imagine it would take some will on the part of the DoD and the Oireachtas to sort.

  11. #83
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,791
    Post Thanks / Like
    RDF pay IS legislatively pegged ( via Defence Forces Regulation R5 ) to PDF Pay - which is outlined in Defence Forces Regulation S3; this has never been superseded. FEMPI seems to do some severe messing by indirectly amending regulations "as if they had been amended " this is causing my brain to be severely taxed at the moment. However since RDF were never subject to FEMPI ( we are specifically left out of the definition of Public Servant) theres a black hole in the regulations.

    Defence Forces Regulations are statutory instruments and have the force of secondary legislation
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  12. #84
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,986
    Post Thanks / Like
    And only the Minister of Defence can make DFRs (I assume)

  13. #85
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,791
    Post Thanks / Like
    See FEMPI for what I mean
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  14. Likes DeV liked this post
  15. #86
    C/S Auldsod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Wesht
    Posts
    486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Essentially the RDF has been forgotten about. It's more likely that the RDF wasn't even thought about rather than being consciously omitted.

  16. Thanks EUFighter thanked for this post
  17. #87
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    The Big Smoke
    Posts
    5,249
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Auldsod View Post
    Essentially the RDF has been forgotten about. It's more likely that the RDF wasn't even thought about rather than being consciously omitted.
    That is probably an accurate statement

  18. #88
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I know as fact that RDFRA are progressing this issue
    Define "Progressing"??? My experience of RDFRA is that this is just political double talk. Unless they specifically state how it is being progressed, then it isn't being progressed very far.

  19. #89
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,986
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Poiuyt View Post
    Define "Progressing"??? My experience of RDFRA is that this is just political double talk. Unless they specifically state how it is being progressed, then it isn't being progressed very far.
    Neither you nor I have been at meeting between RDFRA and DoD/MA....

    I know for a fact that it is not being pushed under the carpet

  20. #90
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Neither you nor I have been at meeting between RDFRA and DoD/MA....
    Again, your point??? Why quote what I say and repeat it back to me as if you are saying something different.

    As regards your 2nd point, I know for a fact that it is. But RDFRA stay quiet, so that their members will know no better.
    Normal RDFRA tactics.

  21. Likes apod liked this post
  22. #91
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,986
    Post Thanks / Like
    I don’t know if it has been raised .... yet..... it either has or will be

  23. Dislikes Poiuyt disliked this post
  24. #92
    C/S
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I don’t know if it has been raised .... yet..... it either has or will be
    For the name of Christ, you do not have to have something to say to every post. If you don't know something .... say nothing!!

    You just make yourself look like an idiot!!

  25. Thanks na grohmiti, Poiuyt thanked for this post
    Likes na grohmiti, Rhodes, Poiuyt liked this post
  26. #93
    Commander in Chief Bravo20's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    The Big Smoke
    Posts
    5,249
    Post Thanks / Like
    The normal route is the issue is raised at a C&A meeting. Ideally it is raised with both military and the civil side. The civil side make the decision but you need the support of the military side. RDFRA could request a meeting with the Minister.

    Unfortunately the power currently lies with DOD. The minister is weak. The DOD don't like the DF and they like the RDF even less. If PDFORRA and RACO think they have little power to wield then RDFRA has even less.

    To get this changed will require someone in DOD deciding to do the right thing. It is not fair to expect RDFRA to be able to get this changed overnight. BUT they should at least started the ball rolling.

  27. Thanks DeV thanked for this post
    Likes DeV liked this post
  28. #94
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,240
    Post Thanks / Like
    The DOD don't like the DF .
    Just a quick pause.
    But what the continental F**K is wrong with that picture!! Where else in the world would an electorate put up with that mickey mouse,self serving,short sighted,kingdom building buttf**Kery???
    The chickens will soon come home to roost if we find ourselves knee deep in shit again along the border next year.

    Now. Carry on.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  29. Likes na grohmiti, Herald, DeV, Truck Driver liked this post
  30. #95
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,986
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    For the name of Christ, you do not have to have something to say to every post. If you don't know something .... say nothing!!

    You just make yourself look like an idiot!!
    I’m not revealing my source

    But I know it is on RDFRA’s radar to do something about

    Poiuyt is accusing RDFRA of doing nothing, none of us know if it is has been raised yet

  31. #96
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Cathal Brugha
    Posts
    9,791
    Post Thanks / Like
    I do not think RDFRAs argument goes far enough in my view
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  32. #97
    C/S Auldsod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Location
    Wesht
    Posts
    486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Again, the most surprising thing for me is that this wasn't an issue for the RDFRA until now....

    Should have been on the radar years ago.

  33. Likes apod liked this post
  34. #98
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Ass in the grass.
    Posts
    5,240
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by auldsod View Post
    again, the most surprising thing for me is that this wasn't an issue for the rdfra until now....

    Should have been on the radar years ago.
    rofl :-d:-d
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  35. #99
    Recruit Poiuyt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    South East
    Posts
    246
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I’m not revealing my source

    But I know it is on RDFRA’s radar to do something about

    Poiuyt is accusing RDFRA of doing nothing, none of us know if it is has been raised yet
    From my extensive experience of RDFRA and sources within RDFRA, "Being on their Radar", "Raising the Issue" & "Progressing the Issue" is political double speak for looking like they are doing something when they either don't know what to do or are not really bothered to do anything.

    When it comes to RDFRA, getting them to commit to anything that doesn't benefit themselves is like nailing jelly to a wall - unless they lay out specifically what they intend do in detail (which they won't do), then forget about them doing anything worthwhile.

    There are whole threads on just how bad RDFRA have become so I won't go into it, but do not expect them to do anything in this instance.

  36. Thanks apod thanked for this post
    Likes apod liked this post
    Dislikes DeV disliked this post
  37. #100
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    East
    Posts
    21,986
    Post Thanks / Like
    I’m not giving the source or how I know but don’t but my words in RDFRA’s mouth..... because they aren’t their words

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •