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  1. #1
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    NS doing it's job..

    Speaking of Brexit, see the howls of outrage from the DUP (and red tops in the UK) over the Orla detaining 2 NI boats in Dundalk Bay today...

  2. #2
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    Thats what happens when one Fishery agreement lapses and you have no government to negotiate a new one. Brexit didn't help either. Maybe the DUP will wake up to the consequences of their failure to re-open Stormont, and their ongoing support for Brexit.
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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Speaking of Brexit, see the howls of outrage from the DUP (and red tops in the UK) over the Orla detaining 2 NI boats in Dundalk Bay today...
    If the two boats in question had been from another part of the UK they too would have been detained , and as the DUP have expressed that they do not want Northern Ireland treated any different than the rest of the UK then it looks like we are just honoring their wishes .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    If the two boats in question had been from another part of the UK they too would have been detained , and as the DUP have expressed that they do not want Northern Ireland treated any different than the rest of the UK then it looks like we are just honoring their wishes .
    Whatever reasons caused the detention of the NI FV's, political actions and court decisions have NOT helped. The British intend pulling out of the London Fisheries agreement excluding all EU vessels from their waters, Our Higher Courts have overturned the gentleman's agreement allowing all NI FV's the same fishing rights on a" we are all Irish " Rule basis. The Dail were required to put the "you are the same as US" statutory provisions on the books but the parties in the Dail stalled passing same for their own reasons.
    However detaining the FV's is very unhelpful and politically juvenile at this fractious time.

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    In the historic circumstances of two of our vessels ending up in the iffy services of two dodgy Countries, we should ensure our retiring ships are - Scrapped , stripped and sunk as tragets, or sold/given directly to an approved country. No more Auctions, no more loss of control.

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  10. #6
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Whatever reasons caused the detention of the NI FV's, political actions and court decisions have NOT helped. The British intend pulling out of the London Fisheries agreement excluding all EU vessels from their waters, Our Higher Courts have overturned the gentleman's agreement allowing all NI FV's the same fishing rights on a" we are all Irish " Rule basis. The Dail were required to put the "you are the same as US" statutory provisions on the books but the parties in the Dail stalled passing same for their own reasons.
    However detaining the FV's is very unhelpful and politically juvenile at this fractious time.
    Law enforcers are responsible for enforcing the law not making it

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Whatever reasons caused the detention of the NI FV's, political actions and court decisions have NOT helped. The British intend pulling out of the London Fisheries agreement excluding all EU vessels from their waters, Our Higher Courts have overturned the gentleman's agreement allowing all NI FV's the same fishing rights on a" we are all Irish " Rule basis. The Dail were required to put the "you are the same as US" statutory provisions on the books but the parties in the Dail stalled passing same for their own reasons.
    However detaining the FV's is very unhelpful and politically juvenile at this fractious time.
    It's not the first time the courts have struck down such "agreements", they did it within the Construction Industry sector a few years ago as well, as to "politically juvenile", it's not the job of the NS ship commander to decide politics, just enforce the rules, and given it's been gone for a number of years the NI fishing boats knew they were breaking the law fishing there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Speaking of Brexit, see the howls of outrage from the DUP (and red tops in the UK) over the Orla detaining 2 NI boats in Dundalk Bay today...
    I saw that. What's behind it?
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    I saw that. What's behind it?
    The Irish Supreme Court struck down the "Agreement" Ireland and the UK had and told the Daíl to replace it with a law, but that's held up in the Seanad at the moment. So it's currently illegal for NI boats to be within the 6 mile limit, these two got done and sent to port overnight. End result the DUP declaring it's all Varadkar's plot and the Warships were so mean to the NI boats etc etc...

    It's no different than any other detainment but somehow it's "BREXIT" related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmitÃ* View Post
    Maybe the DUP will wake up...
    That is unlikely.

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  19. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    That is unlikely.
    To be fair the other side of the coin isn't any better up there.

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  21. #12
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    The two boats have been released by way of the Probation Act after they pleaded guilty, wonder if there will be any movement in the Daíl/Seanad soon on the issue after this?

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  23. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    It's not the first time the courts have struck down such "agreements", they did it within the Construction Industry sector a few years ago as well, as to "politically juvenile", it's not the job of the NS ship commander to decide politics, just enforce the rules, and given it's been gone for a number of years the NI fishing boats knew they were breaking the law fishing there.
    The ruling from the Supreme Court was left on idle since 2016 and matters continued at sea as heretofore , so the question is why did we now want to wake the sleeping dogs?. Naval Captains always follow orders. It should be noted that in the next couple of years Irish 60ft boats will have to fish outside the 6 mile limit-not too bad on the East coast but a killer on the West coast where the 6 miles is measured off straight baselines closing off large Bays.

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  25. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The ruling from the Supreme Court was left on idle since 2016 and matters continued at sea as heretofore , so the question is why did we now want to wake the sleeping dogs?. Naval Captains always follow orders. It should be noted that in the next couple of years Irish 60ft boats will have to fish outside the 6 mile limit-not too bad on the East coast but a killer on the West coast where the 6 miles is measured off straight baselines closing off large Bays.
    Because Irish Fisheries apparently asked them to as there was illegal fishing going on, mostly likely from complaints from local boats. I don't think they get to pick and choose what gets enforced.

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  27. #15
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    So there are now three occasion when our "hate the free staters navy" Fishermen are not republican.
    1 When they are in a life raft.
    2 Free state dole hand outs.
    3 When fishing rights money is at stake

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  29. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Because Irish Fisheries apparently asked them to as there was illegal fishing going on, mostly likely from complaints from local boats. I don't think they get to pick and choose what gets enforced.
    The problem will be " who is asking or directing " and what is the agenda. Ever since Lemass/ O'Neill we have tried to co-operate or co-fund mutually beneficial projects in tourism. power, waterways, and Fisheries. One side or another wanted more of the blanket. It was a mistake to have a DUP conference remark that " we cannot have Southern Irish Warships attacking Northern Irish Fishing Vessels ". The political opportunity was given and taken, and if it was not directed by a responsible agency then we need a clearing agency for Rules of Engagement or Detention.

  30. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The problem will be " who is asking or directing " and what is the agenda. Ever since Lemass/ O'Neill we have tried to co-operate or co-fund mutually beneficial projects in tourism. power, waterways, and Fisheries. One side or another wanted more of the blanket. It was a mistake to have a DUP conference remark that " we cannot have Southern Irish Warships attacking Northern Irish Fishing Vessels ". The political opportunity was given and taken, and if it was not directed by a responsible agency then we need a clearing agency for Rules of Engagement or Detention.
    I am going to go out on a limb here and say this was a result of a Tip Off to the SFPA By either a disgruntled fisherman or a political party looking for publicity. I'll let you decide on that but I do think it was awfully quick between it happening and it being mentioned in Westminster.

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    It was rushed through the courts to get rid of it...
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  34. #19
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    I agree with ancientmariner; there's always an agenda, a backstory. Somebody is pushing their point of view and the Naval Service are just the pointy end of the stick; following orders and doing what they are told. The DUP don't give a rat's ass about fisheries unless it has potential to stick it to the South. Playing with people's lives just to score political points.

  35. #20
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    I'd be willing to suggest that the DUP don't have many NI fishermen in their Demographic.
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  36. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    I agree with ancientmariner; there's always an agenda, a backstory. Somebody is pushing their point of view and the Naval Service are just the pointy end of the stick; following orders and doing what they are told. The DUP don't give a rat's ass about fisheries unless it has potential to stick it to the South. Playing with people's lives just to score political points.
    Just ask a journalist to find out who made the snowballs for the Naval intervention?

  37. #22
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    Out of curiosity. Is the restriction based on where the boat is registered or the nationality of the skipper? Would it have been ok if the skipper held an Irish passport?

  38. #23
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    IIRC its boat registry so if your not on agriculture's books you'll be on DEFRAs
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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    PS Ask yourself why the bill to fix this has been sat in the Seanad for 2 years

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2017/19/

    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireac...ted/b1917s.pdf

    Oh I see why I've just read the committee debate lol judge for yourself ha ha ha
    Last edited by trellheim; 4th March 2019 at 12:13.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post

    Oh I see why I've just read the committee debate lol judge for yourself ha ha ha
    Dear God - and the Irish people voted to retain this bunch of muppets ? I have seen better debates in primary schools.
    “The nation that will insist on drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking done by cowards.”
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