Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Impact of DF or DOD Policies

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by apod View Post
    Dev,

    I have great time for you and this disagreement won't end that but you are being incredibly naive.What you are seeing on open source is what PSPC have put out.

    What you haven't seen and couldn't have unless you were either PDFORRA top table or PSPC. Is the almost book sized second submission from PDFORRA which is not published on the PSPC site or PDFORRAs own or the transcripts of the oral submission made by the Gen Sec.

    There is some serious work being done behind the scenes.Including at moderation on the WTD. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is not happening. A lot of work is done quietly due to legal issues and so as not to prejudice negotiations or future legal proceedings.

    Again I ask you to retract the statement that PDFORRA is doing little.It is incorrect and misleading. If you need further clarification PM me.
    Quite possibly very true (if you say it I assume it is)

    But there is absolutely nothing to stop them being more public. Doing it behind closed doors plays into DoD’s and Government’s hands.

    They could well be acting but until it is in the papers (threat of blue flu got a major increase in AGS pay (not suggesting a green fly)). There is no pressure being applied in reality.
    Last edited by DeV; 2 June 2019, 12:29.

    Comment


    • #62
      But there is absolutely nothing to stop them being more public. Doing it behind closed doors plays into DoD’s and Government’s hands.
      Two different approaches there. The approach PDFORRA seem to be taking is one that some PS unions take which is to not go public but instead do it all behind the curtain , and view public escalation as a part of a strategy. This approach makes sense if the 'Management Side' appreciate and understand this view, and that how the sausage is made is best in the back room. Fair enough if both sides engage in that way

      I am not sure, however, if the Department appreciates this; others closer to the issues know more, and because it is done in the small room we don't get to find out . I can't help but feel that with it starting to show in the BBC for example now that the more open debate is starting to show a little pressure to the Management side.
      "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

      "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

      Comment


      • #63

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Quite possibly very true (if you say it I assume it is)

          But there is absolutely nothing to stop them being more public. Doing it behind closed doors plays into DoD’s and Government’s hands.

          They could well be acting but until it is in the papers (threat of blue flu got a major increase in AGS pay (not suggesting a green fly)). There is no pressure being applied in reality.
          Still no retraction.Seriously??

          Check PM's
          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

          Comment


          • #65
            Well, we do indeed live in interesting times......the Green Party actually calling for an increase in defense spending, shock, horror!!!!! What next, painters painting, cops policing....is this the end of days :-)

            Although this announcement smells like something which was on the books already, it's getting wheeled out to show the govt. is doing something. Subtext: "We know you military people are complaining, so here's a nice barrack block, now fcuk off and leave the kids alone"

            While I'm happy to see service conditions improve, however, as a concept housing becomes a drain on any budget. Once times get hard, maintenance and upkeep goes out the window for years on end. Before you know it, the barracks are in deplorable state and it ends up costing more to rehab them than just maintaining them. I'm more in favour of just giving troops a solid housing allowance and let them decide where they want to live. Ideally, the housing allowance is by location and adjusted on a regular basis to keep up with inflation. Of course, a government can take an allowance away in a financial crisis, a bit harder to do that with an accommodation block.

            As an aside, in the US Navy, sailors assigned to a ship live and sleep on the ship when at home port, Navy generally doesn't provide off ship accommodation. (exceptions do exist for married, etc., but most junior ratings and officers will live on the ship) Don't know about Irish ships, but the ones here are not exactly kitted out like a cruise ship shall we say. Not taking a side on the issue, but it could be argued they are living rent free on a ship.

            A

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by apod View Post
              Dev,

              I have great time for you and this disagreement won't end that but you are being incredibly naive.What you are seeing on open source is what PSPC have put out.

              What you haven't seen and couldn't have unless you were either PDFORRA top table or PSPC. Is the almost book sized second submission from PDFORRA which is not published on the PSPC site or PDFORRAs own or the transcripts of the oral submission made by the Gen Sec.

              There is some serious work being done behind the scenes.Including at moderation on the WTD. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it is not happening. A lot of work is done quietly due to legal issues and so as not to prejudice negotiations or future legal proceedings.

              Again I ask you to retract the statement that PDFORRA is doing little.It is incorrect and misleading. If you need further clarification PM me.
              Originally posted by apod View Post
              Still no retraction.Seriously??

              Check PM's
              I’ll rephrase .... PDFORRA are doing little publicly... I’ll accept what you say at face value and assume it’s correct

              But:
              - many of their own members (obviously not all) aren’t even hearing about it. I understand that the negotiations can’t be compromised (you see it with RDFRA as well) but all they have to tell them is that we met DoD C&A on x date and discussed a, b & c.
              - by not being public they are creating the space for bodies and individuals to fill that space and they are losing support because of it. I suspect that some of them possibly have other agendas.
              - Why would PSPC publish 445 pages of unredacted detailed RACO & ARCO submissions but only 16 pages of PDFORRA’s? If you say there was a much bigger submission I accept that (maybe it is part of phase 3?)

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by apod View Post
                Still no retraction.Seriously??

                Check PM's
                I dont think he knows how to backpedal, firmly believes he can dig upwards

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by apod View Post
                  Still no retraction.Seriously??

                  Check PM's
                  Happy to amend after PMs

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    Happy to amend after PMs
                    Thank you Dev. As I said things are not always what they seem.
                    "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by apod View Post
                      Thank you Dev. As I said things are not always what they seem.
                      But the optics can be important too

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Not sure if this is the right spot or not but the Examiner is saying that €9m is to be spent on housing on the Naval Base:

                        Was this planned or a bit of reaction to show that "something is being done"?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Here's an idea, in the short term. P31 either is due to leave service shortly. Their is a shortage of accomodation for ships crews during refit or when ships are home etc. There are only enough crews we are told for 7 ships anyway. Why not just retire Eithne and use her as an alongside accommodation ship?
                          I'm struggling to identify a suitable site in the Naval base that would be suitable for a new accommodation block.
                          The DoD need to bite the bullet and either return to having married quarters close to military installations or pay each member sufficiently so they can afford to rent easily nearby.
                          For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                            Here's an idea, in the short term. P31 either is due to leave service shortly. Their is a shortage of accomodation for ships crews during refit or when ships are home etc. There are only enough crews we are told for 7 ships anyway. Why not just retire Eithne and use her as an alongside accommodation ship?
                            I'm struggling to identify a suitable site in the Naval base that would be suitable for a new accommodation block.
                            The DoD need to bite the bullet and either return to having married quarters close to military installations or pay each member sufficiently so they can afford to rent easily nearby.
                            That would entail taking up a berth full time.
                            Having a ship decommissioned full time would still require a reduced ships company for maintainance, etc.
                            Would be far more expensive than maintaining a building.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by A/TEL View Post
                              That would entail taking up a berth full time.
                              Having a ship decommissioned full time would still require a reduced ships company for maintainance, etc.
                              Would be far more expensive than maintaining a building.
                              It's done in other Navies. HMS Bristol was an accomodation ship for many years. It's an immediate, if temporary solution in the absence of any identified site, or actual buildings suitable to be used immediately for accomodation, don't you think? The ship will be alongside until her future is decided in any event. Can NS vessels plug into 220 V shore supply?
                              Very easy for the DoD to say today "we have plans to spend €9m on housing in the naval base" when unless I'm mistaken there is no room to build new accomodation on the island (that which is not still contaminated, at least), then let the plan languish for years while this moment of newsworthyness passes.
                              By the time it eventually happens,(if it does) those who needed the accomodation today are long gone from the service.
                              There is scarce supply of rental accom in Ringaskiddy that NMCI has not already cornered. Price of property in Carrigaline has gone nuts. Back Passage is Shinner central, no NS man or woman in their right mind should feel safe living there.
                              So where is the O/Sea, O/Tel or O/Mech expected to live for those months of the year when they are not at sea?
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                . Back Passage is Shinner central, no NS man or woman in their right mind should feel safe living there.
                                So where is the O/Sea, O/Tel or O/Mech expected to live for those months of the year when they are not at sea?
                                Forgive my ignorance but Back Passage? Passage West?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X