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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It needs to be functional (hard wearing, keeps its colour, breathable, flame retardant etc etc) while being smart. But as per the last few versions of DPM no point concentrating on it being smart when it’s not up to the job.

    At the end of the day it is for day to day wear
    what kind of gear will they wear on deck jobs ..ie painting etc and engine room work,,, that will add to the camo affect,,,

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  3. #27
    C/S CTU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Kid's super hero pyjamas , that's what it looks like . Knew it would come to me eventually.
    It took me a while but then I remembered where I saw it before, The Street Fighter movie

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    Well, government doesn't stop just because the country's been destroyed! I mean, annihilation's bad enough without anarchy to make things even worse!

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  5. #28
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Me neither , I've known many in the Navy who could hide onboard a ship and not be found for days and that was without camouflage .
    Dislike in error...

    Was that not what fan rooms were for ?....hiding and sleeping.. emergency steering flat was my favourite hideout
    Time for another break I think......

  6. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    1/ I never said the problems the DF face were created by the NS.Far from it and yes you are right the recent controversy has given us ammo to use.My point is that the optics of this are terrible. "NS spends X amount on new uniforms while sailors live on ships when alongside etc etc".

    2/ Agreed.Yet there are already two different versions of subdued tricolour on issue and not just for "them".Oh and the tricolour on the NSV-DPM was deliberately left hi-viz.

    3/ B*****ks. The RN doesn't seem to have that problem.Even this morning I was watching a Sky news interview with a female USN ships Captain. Plain navy uniform with necessary bells and whistle to ID her as USN. Simple. Are you telling me that anyone looking at these Sailors below wouldn't know they were Navy??
    Barracks yourself. If the Irish Navy issue was styled the same as the RN issue with covered button line and pants and shirt with matching blended colour then we probably wouldn't be having this proposal. Blue is a hard colour to survive laundry. Our contracts would never be for matching shirts and pants with shirt complete with Navy and National markings. The RN have been stumbling through various remakes with light shirts and darker pants. They have now gone for a single matched colour yet to be proved to survive constant laundry. What ever we do the working duty dress must be smart and survive the I WOULDN'T BE SEEN DEAD IN THIS even in B*****ks.

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  8. #30
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Only one size FF cap badge nowadays for NS O/SEA, A/SEA, LS ranks in the NS - the larger one usually seen on Army berets
    The smaller one has been discontinued
    Which is inherently wrong as the smaller badge was specifically designed for the NS Dress Cap. The larger badge encroaches on the black tally band with the word Eire on it, this should not be the case. To be worn correctly the front of the cap has no to be deformed to get the badge fixed to it without encroaching.

    Originally the NS cap badge was cloth to get around this problem. the smaller badge needs to be retained.

    Now for the DPM... will overalls be used to engine room and persons painting to keep this kit stain free. Anyone has served at sea will know how easily clothing becomes stained when working in proximity with engines and paint!

    Why re invent the wheel when blue / navy working dress has existed as long as the NS, the only issue being the quality.... and if we want to be really pedantic.. the Army pattern OG working dress was actually a copy of the NS gear....

    I don't really understand why this gear is needed when the money could be better spent in other areas...…...if they want to spend it on uniforms they badly need to look at the No 1s jacket,,, shapeless, pleats and seams all over the place for something that was originally intended to be worn as a pullover..... and all the collars are too big for the blue jean collars
    Time for another break I think......

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  10. #31
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Barracks yourself. If the Irish Navy issue was styled the same as the RN issue with covered button line and pants and shirt with matching blended colour then we probably wouldn't be having this proposal. Blue is a hard colour to survive laundry. Our contracts would never be for matching shirts and pants with shirt complete with Navy and National markings. The RN have been stumbling through various remakes with light shirts and darker pants. They have now gone for a single matched colour yet to be proved to survive constant laundry. What ever we do the working duty dress must be smart and survive the I WOULDN'T BE SEEN DEAD IN THIS even in B*****ks.
    Did you actually read my post above or are you just jumping to defend this stooooopid idea out of blind loyalty to the NS?? I clearly said that while this proposed DPM uniform is a massive waste of money and a vanity project the need still clearly exists for the NS working uniform to be massively updated. New material,flame resistant properties and Branding to distinguish our personnel from other agencies.That can all be achieved WITHOUT designing and paying for a new DPM pattern that isn't needed.
    And just to clarify all the recent NS uniform shirts have a Tri-colour and NS tab fitted as standard so yes.We do contract for those.
    I have read the literature on the IKON proposing this uniform and the various requirements.With regards the Technical specs it is impressive and a massive step up from what is on issue now.If they just wadied the stupid pattern and produced it in Navy or even plain grey(NS ships are grey are they not?) it could actually be something good.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Did you actually read my post above or are you just jumping to defend this stooooopid idea out of blind loyalty to the NS?? I clearly said that while this proposed DPM uniform is a massive waste of money and a vanity project the need still clearly exists for the NS working uniform to be massively updated. New material,flame resistant properties and Branding to distinguish our personnel from other agencies.That can all be achieved WITHOUT designing and paying for a new DPM pattern that isn't needed.
    And just to clarify all the recent NS uniform shirts have a Tri-colour and NS tab fitted as standard so yes.We do contract for those.
    I have read the literature on the IKON proposing this uniform and the various requirements.With regards the Technical specs it is impressive and a massive step up from what is on issue now.If they just wadied the stupid pattern and produced it in Navy or even plain grey(NS ships are grey are they not?) it could actually be something good.
    Of course I will defend the NS position. Remember most of what is got from the Master's table comes through a green sieve. As I said I do not like the large pattern disrupted coloration and would have no problem with proven naval dress from other European navies. They all seem to struggle with producing a sensible dress but the emerging consensus seems to be a form of DPM. The Brits will always be traditional. We were too-when I joined the working rig was ARMY Orangey/Brown jacket and pants with brass buttons, both the ratings and the navy disliked it. The main problem to be overcome is that a blue shirt and pants needs to have other elements added to it for cold weather, range practices, boat work, boarding, etc. etc. It was always locally adapted to make up for lack of provision. Try and get it right this time and model dress for each of the tasks required on board and ashore.

  13. #33
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Most navies are plain blue.

    What would be wrong with a single colour (blue or grey) uniform?

    Nothing and it would be cheaper.

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  15. #34
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Grey won't work at sea, far too much exposure to oil and grease pain't etc....will become stained and dirty too fast.Not sure what the problems are with the colouring of the current rig...but it doen't show up the dirt as much as old blue and navy stuff. What ever material, pockets etc are required juts add them to the current set up and run it off in a single colour...in suitable material..and make it modular
    Time for another break I think......

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  17. #35
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Regardless as to what outfit is decided on, when it comes to doing painting and decorating and mucking around in the engine just throw on a pair of overalls for the job , duh .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  19. #36
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    Aussies had grey overalls up to around 2006, as their normal.uniform. appropriate rank marking and garment worn underneath, appropriate to climate of their AO. They changed to the grey camo pattern, again makes sense in some of their inshore waters.
    I think though, what the NS were trying to achieve. Everyone wears Navy workwear these days. Customs, Firemen, Civil Defence, most HGV mechanics, most telecommunication contractors. It's the default workwear colour.
    The NS have chosen workwear that is instantly identifiable in a mass of navy coloured uniforms, who is actually Navy.
    It's well overdue. I'm sure we'll grow to like it in time.
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  21. #37
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Of course I will defend the NS position. Remember most of what is got from the Master's table comes through a green sieve.
    Really? MM seems to have found a away around that with the extra ship even though there wasn't enough people to crew it.
    As I said I do not like the large pattern disrupted coloration and would have no problem with proven naval dress from other European navies. They all seem to struggle with producing a sensible dress but the emerging consensus seems to be a form of DPM.
    Ah no. I just did a quick search and France,Germany,The Netherlands,Spain and Portugal all have a plain navy or blue uniform.

    The Brits will always be traditional. We were too-when I joined the working rig was ARMY Orangey/Brown jacket and pants with brass buttons, both the ratings and the navy disliked it. The main problem to be overcome is that a blue shirt and pants needs to have other elements added to it for cold weather, range practices, boat work, boarding, etc. etc. It was always locally adapted to make up for lack of provision. Try and get it right this time and model dress for each of the tasks required on board and ashore.
    So issue an updated version of the Plain Navy smock and associated underlayers that the NS experimented with a few years back for day to day use and a set of normal DPMs for ranges etc.No need for a bespoke pattern that is going to cost Johnny and jane taxpayer more. You did hit the nail on head though. This has nothing to do with Operational effectiveness it is driven by two core factors.Corporate Identity( An NS Tally on the Shirt/smock and a BFO tricolour cant do this???) and most important of all to the NS : "We don't want to look like the Army!"

    PS: Here what the Yanks are going for now:
    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...able-and-free/
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  23. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Here what the Yanks are going for now:
    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...able-and-free/
    Actually quite like the colour scheme and cut of that uniform
    Thought gone into that, to be fair
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  25. #39
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Actually come to think of it, a navy blue version of the uniform in the original picture could also be used by our colleagues in Baldonnel
    Thus, cutting down on the number of uniforms required in stores (only need DPM for Army, a navy blue for Air Corps / NS)
    Make it hard wearing, and it could also be suitable for use by the aircraft techs?
    Economies of scale, as someone mentioned above
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  27. #40
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Regardless as to what outfit is decided on, when it comes to doing painting and decorating and mucking around in the engine just throw on a pair of overalls for the job , duh .
    Think back ffs.. we were lucky to have what we stood up in....never mind Gucci stuff for painting such as overalls
    Time for another break I think......

  28. #41
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Actually come to think of it, a navy blue version of the uniform in the original picture could also be used by our colleagues in Baldonnel
    Thus, cutting down on the number of uniforms required in stores (only need DPM for Army, a navy blue for Air Corps / NS)
    Make it hard wearing, and it could also be suitable for use by the aircraft techs?
    Economies of scale, as someone mentioned above
    How could you even think of such a think you charlatan...share kit with an opposing service.... how dare you.... treachery!
    Time for another break I think......

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  30. #42
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    Well, on reflection, cost can't be an issue, in view of the millions handed back each year by DoD. At least some of it may as well be spent.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
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  31. #43
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    Cost is not an issue when it comes to manufacturing these uniforms.
    The contractor just has to threaten its staff that unless they complete the irish order for 2000 different colour uniforms in time they won't get their wifi back and their parents will be called before the factory manager...
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  33. #44
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.

    Less issued than the current GDR which is initial issue of 4 shirts, 4 pants.
    The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
    But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.

    Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
    I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
    What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.


    The last few weeks with the high temperatures wearing GDR has been a nightmare, sweating profusely.

    Only on trial this year, so it may not happen at all or may go through significant changes depending on performance on said trial.

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  35. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.

    Less issued than the current GDR which is initial issue of 4 shirts, 4 pants.
    The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
    But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.

    Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
    I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
    What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.


    The last few weeks with the high temperatures wearing GDR has been a nightmare, sweating profusely.

    Only on trial this year, so it may not happen at all or may go through significant changes depending on performance on said trial.
    I must say the most satisfying fallout from the new Navy DPM is how much it will upset the hardened office Pongo's.

    The more Ikon posts the better.

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  37. #46
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
    So ALL items of DF get are going to be flame resistant /retardant now.is that correct?Not just the UBACS and T-Shirts?? A bit overkill seeing as the DPM shirt is now being classed as Barracks wear.Also Experience has shown that making Garments FR makes them HOTTER to wear so make up your minds.
    But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.
    Better quality my Fainne.Has anybody looked at the right arm of any of their DPM shirts lately? Even brand new ones barely worn.The material under the arm near the armpit gets worn away.Even faster with the 2016-2017 shirts due to the velcro on end of the nametag rubbing against it during the day.As for a new kit policy.There is one already. You put in for kit.Six months later you are still waiting for it because stores shuts down to kit out every recruit platoon and every overseas rotation.
    So the simple policy is if you get it at all your lucky!
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  38. #47
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    The additional cost will be larger yes initally, but it will be cost effective over time.

    Less issued than the current GDR which is initial issue of 4 shirts, 4 pants.
    The material is to be used for all DF so the cost of all DPM both Army and Navy will be increased initally.
    But being of better quality along with a new kit policy will ensure personnel look after their personal kit.

    Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
    I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
    What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.


    The last few weeks with the high temperatures wearing GDR has been a nightmare, sweating profusely.

    Only on trial this year, so it may not happen at all or may go through significant changes depending on performance on said trial.
    I think you’ll find it difficult to find someone who doesn’t agree that the current GDR isn’t fit for purpose (from what has been said here and elsewhere).

    It is the fact it will be in a new pattern of DPM.

  39. #48
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmiti View Post
    Cost is not an issue when it comes to manufacturing these uniforms.
    The contractor just has to threaten its staff that unless they complete the irish order for 2000 different colour uniforms in time they won't get their wifi back and their parents will be called before the factory manager...
    That’s the cost of manufacturing.... not the cost to the customer

  40. #49
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    So ALL items of DF get are going to be flame resistant /retardant now.is that correct?Not just the UBACS and T-Shirts?? A bit overkill seeing as the DPM shirt is now being classed as Barracks wear
    I always agreed that flame retardant issued gear should be available to anyone working in armoured vehicles, especially crews. How you go about issuing it or quantifying it is problematic but it is a must.

    Many of who commented here will not wear this kit.
    I for one am glad we are finally getting a quality uniform that we can layer up/down depending on time of year, AO etc.
    What it looks like from your armchair is irrelevant, what its like to wear 200 miles off the west coast on operations is the important thing.
    While not in favour of the pattern I would agree that this work wear in modular format is long overdue
    Time for another break I think......

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  42. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Really? MM seems to have found a away around that with the extra ship even though there wasn't enough people to crew it.

    Ah no. I just did a quick search and France,Germany,The Netherlands,Spain and Portugal all have a plain navy or blue uniform.


    So issue an updated version of the Plain Navy smock and associated underlayers that the NS experimented with a few years back for day to day use and a set of normal DPMs for ranges etc.No need for a bespoke pattern that is going to cost Johnny and jane taxpayer more. You did hit the nail on head though. This has nothing to do with Operational effectiveness it is driven by two core factors.Corporate Identity( An NS Tally on the Shirt/smock and a BFO tricolour cant do this???) and most important of all to the NS : "We don't want to look like the Army!"

    PS: Here what the Yanks are going for now:
    https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...able-and-free/
    I note the Australian Navy and Airforce are changing to Blue DPM and the Dutch seem to DPM for boarding operations. However I don't really care once the issue is fit for purpose and if DPM is of close pitch pattern. Corporate identity is important both ashore and afloat. The Navy needs proper provision and possibly might be better doing so from direct allotted resources.

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