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there are a lot of people responsible for these deaths- 1 guy is in America selling 99's
but to me the real shame and disgrace is our own Officers sent these lads badly armed
in harms way
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
there are a lot of people responsible for these deaths- 1 guy is in America selling 99's
but to me the real shame and disgrace is our own Officers sent these lads badly armed
in harms way
That is the real unanswered question. Who sent a lightly armed convoy with a UNTSO officer?
The UNTSO officer himself (R.I.P)seemed surprised at how things panned out. The killers singled out the Irish troops and ignored the others.
There is a strong suggestion that someone sent them out as a "blood sacrifice", to prevent revenge attacks on other UN troops. I know those who served there know better than me, but the idea that a families honour must be maintained by "an eye for an eye" has long been suggested.
It is important though that the history of the proud service by Irishmen in UNIFIL be remembered with the same importance as those who participated in the War of Independence or the Civil war, because it was the actions of these men that established Irelands reputation in world affairs.
Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.
Who sent a lightly armed convoy with a UNTSO officer?
Would it have been common at the time (or since) for armed UNIFIL troops to travel with unarmed UNTSO officers?
The killers singled out the Irish troops and ignored the others.
There is a strong suggestion that someone sent them out as a "blood sacrifice", to prevent revenge attacks on other UN troops. I know those who served there know better than me, but the idea that a families honour must be maintained by "an eye for an eye" has long been suggested.
Haven't heard that but you are quite correct with regard to the killers singling out the Irish. They were singled out because of At Tiri. I think there were also some Irish soldiers singled out by an SLA/DFF IED attack around the same time.
There was a Primetime documentary about all the events surrounding the killing around 15 years ago.
There was a remark in that artiul about the PA's keeping a lid on things in the camp
after the deaths of the Men.
I also heard that around the time, IRISHBATT personnel were seen carrying their DF berets in their pockets around the time..... ie if targeted the blue would be swapped for the black (with no UN ROE).
I also heard that around the time, IRISHBATT personnel were seen carrying their DF berets in their pockets around the time..... ie if targeted the blue would be swapped for the black (with no UN ROE).[/QUOTE]
At At Tiri the men asked for permission to change to Black Berets but officer refused it
Private Stephen Griffin, was killed in the battle, in which the Irish detachment fired dozens of shells from armoured cars at the opposition.
Point 1:- Private Stevie Griffin may he + Rest In Peace + was wounded in the head,
while moving up to the area of the "Out-house" and died later in an Israeli hospital.
Point 2:- One Irish-Batt AML 90 fired on 1 D.F.F. Half-track blocking the lane up to the Irish-Batt postion in Atiri.
Point 3:- Dutch-Batt fired off more T.O.W. missiles than we fired off AML 90 Rounds.
Sorry to be so picky but as an ex-member of "C" Company 46th Irish Battalion, U.N.I.F.I.L.
it narks me that bloody reporters cant get the facts right.
True... just finished a book about Mossad..... they even armed the Iranians at one stage!
Would it have been common at the time (or since) for armed UNIFIL troops to travel with unarmed UNTSO officers?
I also heard that around the time, IRISHBATT personnel were seen carrying their DF berets in their pockets around the time..... ie if targeted the blue would be swapped for the black (with no UN ROE).
1. No, it was unheard off that a U.N.T.S.O. Officer would have been given command of an Irish-Batt U.N.I.F.I.L. Patrol, there has never been a satisfactory explanation why it was ordered by either the U.N., the Irish Defence Forces, or Major Harry Lkine the U.S. Military Officer / U.N.T.S.O. Officer who accoppanied the ill-fated patrol that day.
2. It was parts of the 1st Bn contingent and 28th Bn contingent of "C" Company in Atiri at that time, and the only person I have been able to pin this "Urban Myth" on is Robert Fisk,
I, myself and a few of the lads with me, never saw any black-berets being carried after the first day at Beriut Airport, when pre-disembarkation from the plane we were ordered to remove our black-betrets and quickly stow them in our kit-bags as soon as they were unloaded.
When the events in Atiri occured most of the unrequired kitbags containing such items as black-berets, Dress uniforms, Greatcoats, shoes, etc..etc.. were stashed with the "C" Company Quartermaster Clark in the "C" Company HQ in Haditha.
I think the whole business, including the entire UNIFIL episode was a typical UN cock up. A poor mandate that could never be applied. UNIFIL MUST oversee the withdrawl of the Israeli forces etc. with what, an antiquated AML 90, posts inside Israeli controlled areas so that the UN generals , etc could move their little blue flags around and show a presence.
I never served in the Leb but have seen and witnessed at first hand over the last 25 yrs the typical UN cock ups in Africa and Asia and the farting around of Col blimps in blue berets , cravats and badges.
For a lot of the officers its just overseas allowances, cushy billets where they can often bring their family, import the duty free car, and a step onto a civilian job with the UN , fOR SOME OF THE THIRD WORLD GUYS , more money than they can ever believe, so vested interests and no desire to rock the boat. If u do then u are quietly sidelined etc. Meanwhile the ranks take the flak and shit, their lives are put at risk and their deaths are used to justify the missions.
Just look at what happened in Sierra Leone,
For a lot of the officers its just overseas allowances, cushy billets where they can often bring their family, import the duty free car, and a step onto a civilian job with the UN , fOR SOME OF THE THIRD WORLD GUYS , more money than they can ever believe, so vested interests and no desire to rock the boat. If u do then u are quietly sidelined etc. Meanwhile the ranks take the flak and shit, their lives are put at risk and their deaths are used to justify the missions.
Just look at what happened in Sierra Leone,
Sums up the book I've just finished about one RM Majors story in Sierra Leone. Crazy stuff.
"The Question is not: how far you will take this? The Question is do you possess the constitution to go as far as is needed?"
I know it's a sensitive subject, given the amount of time that Irish troops spent out there, and the number who never made it home, but the question has to be asked as to what UNIFIL actually achieved?
It's a genuine question - I don't have an answer, but the impression one gets is that the troops out there had no real ability (meaning mandate) to affect events, and could merely 'monitor' the situation, even if that meant monitoring the Israelis hammering the crap out of South Lebanon every couple of years. I'm sure there was valuable humanitarian work carried out, and that the experience was critical for the DF at large, but what did the mission actually achieve, and was it worth the loss of so many men?
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