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  1. #26
    Potential Liability yellowjacket's Avatar
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    Nothing, once they didn't get caught..
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    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  2. #27
    Nikolai
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    scum like him shouldlnt be waffled about by some stupid court they should be disposed off (due process my ass)

  3. #28
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Did anyone see the Sunday Business Post yesterday? Good interview with Pte Smallhorne's son, as well as a background and update on the current situation. Seems the ice cream man has made himself scarce.

  4. #29
    Closed Account ZULU's Avatar
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    Read it too. Very informative article.


    Reading a book called Unscathed by a RM Major about UN ops in Sierra Leone. The similarities of the way militias dealed with the UN when they had an "issue" are strikingly similar.

  5. #30
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    The israelis will support anyone that suits them including arabs, christian , Hamas, the Palestinian authorityetc etc.
    It was tragic the murde of these two guys I knew Smallhorne, but it was a typical UN cock up, sending a few drivers, armed only with Gustafs into an area in which they were so vunerable.
    As regards justice, retribution, unfortunately there are som many guys walking freely around in most of the capital cities of the world that have caused much more heartache.
    Dublin, London, Paris U name it..

  6. #31
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Bandit hit the nail on the head there

    there are a lot of people responsible for these deaths- 1 guy is in America selling 99's

    but to me the real shame and disgrace is our own Officers sent these lads badly armed

    in harms way
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  7. #32
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Bandit hit the nail on the head there

    there are a lot of people responsible for these deaths- 1 guy is in America selling 99's

    but to me the real shame and disgrace is our own Officers sent these lads badly armed

    in harms way
    That is the real unanswered question. Who sent a lightly armed convoy with a UNTSO officer?
    The UNTSO officer himself (R.I.P)seemed surprised at how things panned out. The killers singled out the Irish troops and ignored the others.
    There is a strong suggestion that someone sent them out as a "blood sacrifice", to prevent revenge attacks on other UN troops. I know those who served there know better than me, but the idea that a families honour must be maintained by "an eye for an eye" has long been suggested.

    It is important though that the history of the proud service by Irishmen in UNIFIL be remembered with the same importance as those who participated in the War of Independence or the Civil war, because it was the actions of these men that established Irelands reputation in world affairs.

  8. #33
    Brigadier General
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    There was a remark in that artiul about the PA's keeping a lid on things in the camp

    after the deaths of the Men.

  9. #34
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDIT View Post
    The israelis will support anyone that suits them including arabs, christian , Hamas, the Palestinian authorityetc etc.
    True... just finished a book about Mossad..... they even armed the Iranians at one stage!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Who sent a lightly armed convoy with a UNTSO officer?
    Would it have been common at the time (or since) for armed UNIFIL troops to travel with unarmed UNTSO officers?


    The killers singled out the Irish troops and ignored the others.

    There is a strong suggestion that someone sent them out as a "blood sacrifice", to prevent revenge attacks on other UN troops. I know those who served there know better than me, but the idea that a families honour must be maintained by "an eye for an eye" has long been suggested.
    Haven't heard that but you are quite correct with regard to the killers singling out the Irish. They were singled out because of At Tiri. I think there were also some Irish soldiers singled out by an SLA/DFF IED attack around the same time.

    There was a Primetime documentary about all the events surrounding the killing around 15 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    There was a remark in that artiul about the PA's keeping a lid on things in the camp

    after the deaths of the Men.
    I also heard that around the time, IRISHBATT personnel were seen carrying their DF berets in their pockets around the time..... ie if targeted the blue would be swapped for the black (with no UN ROE).

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    True... just finished a book about Mossad..... they even armed the Iranians at one stage!
    Israel and Iran have invariably been allies against their mutual enemy the Arabs.
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. Margaret Mead

  11. #36
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    I also heard that around the time, IRISHBATT personnel were seen carrying their DF berets in their pockets around the time..... ie if targeted the blue would be swapped for the black (with no UN ROE).[/QUOTE]



    At At Tiri the men asked for permission to change to Black Berets but officer refused it

  12. #37
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Israel and Iran have invariably been allies against their mutual enemy the Arabs.
    And Iran fund Hezbollah!

  13. #38
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Private Stephen Griffin, was killed in the battle, in which the Irish detachment fired dozens of shells from armoured cars at the opposition.
    Point 1:- Private Stevie Griffin may he + Rest In Peace + was wounded in the head,
    while moving up to the area of the "Out-house" and died later in an Israeli hospital.

    Point 2:- One Irish-Batt AML 90 fired on 1 D.F.F. Half-track blocking the lane up to the Irish-Batt postion in Atiri.

    Point 3:- Dutch-Batt fired off more T.O.W. missiles than we fired off AML 90 Rounds.

    Sorry to be so picky but as an ex-member of "C" Company 46th Irish Battalion, U.N.I.F.I.L.

    it narks me that bloody reporters cant get the facts right.

    Connaught Stranger.

  14. #39
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    True... just finished a book about Mossad..... they even armed the Iranians at one stage!

    Would it have been common at the time (or since) for armed UNIFIL troops to travel with unarmed UNTSO officers?

    I also heard that around the time, IRISHBATT personnel were seen carrying their DF berets in their pockets around the time..... ie if targeted the blue would be swapped for the black (with no UN ROE).
    1. No, it was unheard off that a U.N.T.S.O. Officer would have been given command of an Irish-Batt U.N.I.F.I.L. Patrol, there has never been a satisfactory explanation why it was ordered by either the U.N., the Irish Defence Forces, or Major Harry Lkine the U.S. Military Officer / U.N.T.S.O. Officer who accoppanied the ill-fated patrol that day.

    2. It was parts of the 1st Bn contingent and 28th Bn contingent of "C" Company in Atiri at that time, and the only person I have been able to pin this "Urban Myth" on is Robert Fisk,

    I, myself and a few of the lads with me, never saw any black-berets being carried after the first day at Beriut Airport, when pre-disembarkation from the plane we were ordered to remove our black-betrets and quickly stow them in our kit-bags as soon as they were unloaded.

    When the events in Atiri occured most of the unrequired kitbags containing such items as black-berets, Dress uniforms, Greatcoats, shoes, etc..etc.. were stashed with the "C" Company Quartermaster Clark in the "C" Company HQ in Haditha.

    Connaught Stranger.

  15. #40
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    Hi there,
    What did the Dutch fire at? Armour or bunkers or gun positions? Did they suffer any "retaliation"?
    regards
    GttC

  16. #41
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Armour. I think they rendered a Sherman U/s.
    http://forum.irishmilitaryonline.com...php/t-840.html

  17. #42
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    I think the whole business, including the entire UNIFIL episode was a typical UN cock up. A poor mandate that could never be applied. UNIFIL MUST oversee the withdrawl of the Israeli forces etc. with what, an antiquated AML 90, posts inside Israeli controlled areas so that the UN generals , etc could move their little blue flags around and show a presence.
    I never served in the Leb but have seen and witnessed at first hand over the last 25 yrs the typical UN cock ups in Africa and Asia and the farting around of Col blimps in blue berets , cravats and badges.
    For a lot of the officers its just overseas allowances, cushy billets where they can often bring their family, import the duty free car, and a step onto a civilian job with the UN , fOR SOME OF THE THIRD WORLD GUYS , more money than they can ever believe, so vested interests and no desire to rock the boat. If u do then u are quietly sidelined etc. Meanwhile the ranks take the flak and shit, their lives are put at risk and their deaths are used to justify the missions.
    Just look at what happened in Sierra Leone,

  18. #43
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Is it true that the UNIFIL mandate was never achieved?

  19. #44
    Closed Account ZULU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDIT View Post
    For a lot of the officers its just overseas allowances, cushy billets where they can often bring their family, import the duty free car, and a step onto a civilian job with the UN , fOR SOME OF THE THIRD WORLD GUYS , more money than they can ever believe, so vested interests and no desire to rock the boat. If u do then u are quietly sidelined etc. Meanwhile the ranks take the flak and shit, their lives are put at risk and their deaths are used to justify the missions.
    Just look at what happened in Sierra Leone,
    Sums up the book I've just finished about one RM Majors story in Sierra Leone. Crazy stuff.

  20. #45
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    I know it's a sensitive subject, given the amount of time that Irish troops spent out there, and the number who never made it home, but the question has to be asked as to what UNIFIL actually achieved?

    It's a genuine question - I don't have an answer, but the impression one gets is that the troops out there had no real ability (meaning mandate) to affect events, and could merely 'monitor' the situation, even if that meant monitoring the Israelis hammering the crap out of South Lebanon every couple of years. I'm sure there was valuable humanitarian work carried out, and that the experience was critical for the DF at large, but what did the mission actually achieve, and was it worth the loss of so many men?

  21. #46
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Hi there,
    What did the Dutch fire at? Armour or bunkers or gun positions? Did they suffer any "retaliation"?
    regards
    GttC
    The Dutch were tasked with taking out D.F.F. Sherman tanks threatening At-Tiri from outside the village, as far as I remember, they hit 3 and narrowly missed one, beside which Major Saad Haddat, the commander of the D.F.F. was standing, which later lead to statements on the "Voice of Peace" radio station that the Irish tried to assinate him.

    Connaught Stranger.

  22. #47
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Is it true that the UNIFIL mandate was never achieved?
    The first "I" stands for Interim.... UNIFIL was supposed to be short term it is now probably one of the longest running missions.

    One of the aims was to see the Israelis withdrawal.... they did on several occasions but the last time the took the DFF/SLA with them. So in that way yes.

    Also, a lot of the people who stayed in the AO were only able to do so because of the UNIFIL presence, otherwise they would have become refugees.

  23. #48
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    A slight bit of hope:

    Ethiopian who ‘tortured inmates in prison camp during the 1970s Red Terror’ arrested after being spotted by ‘victim’ in Denver cafe

    Man arrested after being spotted by former prisoner in suburban cafe
    Accused of carrying out vicious beatings using a cattle prod, rifle butts, whips and pipes
    Said to have hurt inmates during 'Red Terror' when up to 500,000 Ethiopians were killed by Communists

    By Sam Adams

    PUBLISHED: 08:52 GMT, 5 September 2012 | UPDATED: 12:23 GMT, 5 September 2012

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    A brutal Ethopian prison guard who tortured inmates with cattle prods in the 1970s has been arrested following a chance encounter in a U.S.restaurant by one of his victims, immigration chiefs claimed today.

    Kefelegn Alemu Worku is also said to have beaten prisoners with rifle butts, whips and pipes during a period known as the Red Terror when up to 500,000 people died in a political purge by communist rulers.

    Worku was previously known as Tufa when he worked at the notorious Higher 15 detention camp - the site of many executions - according to two former inmates who identified him in a photo line-up.
    Arrest: The man was arrested in a cafe frequented by members of the Ethiopian community in Aurora, Colorado

    Arrest: The man was arrested in a cafe frequented by members of the Ethiopian community in Aurora, Colorado

    He was spotted in the Cozy Cafe in Aurora, Colorado last May by a another former prisoner who recognized him.

    Worku was a regular at the cafe, which is a hangout for Ethiopian immigrants in the Denver area, said restaurant manager Girma Baye.

    Worku, who worked at a parking lot and had previous held a job at Denver International Airport, has been charged with unlawfully procuring citizenship or naturalization and aggravated identity theft.
    Power: Mengistu Haile Mariam (pictured) was the most prominent officer of the Derg, Communist military junta that oversaw the Red Terror in Ethiopia during the late 1970s

    Power: Mengistu Haile Mariam (pictured) was the most prominent officer of the Derg, Communist military junta that oversaw the Red Terror in Ethiopia during the late 1970s

    If convicted of both, he faces up to 12 years in prison and fines of up to $500,000.

    The Ethiopian who alerted the authorities claims he escaped from the prison in 1979, Homeland Security Agent Jeffrey Lembke said.

    The three immigrants told authorities the man they identified as Worku participated in beatings and torture sessions that included a cattle prod, rifle butts, whips and pipes.

    They also said he threatened at least one witness with an AK-47 at the prison where detainees were regularly beaten and executed.

    The former prisoners had 'a very strong reason to remember, even though it was 30 years ago,' said federal prosecutor Brenda Taylor in court.

    Federal public defender Matthew Golla said his client denies all of the charges.

    The man entered his plea in federal court before being held without bail by a judge who noted that he is accused of using several aliases.

    U.S. Magistrate Judge Kristen Mix also said the man faces serious accusations involving a detention center known as Higher 15.

    It was established during the late 1970s in a campaign known as the Red Terror, which Human Rights Watch has called 'one of the most systematic uses of mass murder by a state ever witnessed in Africa.'
    Years of suffering: An Ethiopian refugee camp in Ali Sabieh, Djibouti. Ethiopians have suffered terribly from the effects of war and famine during recent decades

    Years of suffering: An Ethiopian refugee camp in Ali Sabieh, Djibouti. Ethiopians have suffered terribly from the effects of war and famine during recent decades

    Golla said his client has lived peacefully in Denver for eight years and should be released.

    He said he has worked at Denver International Airport and is currently employed with a parking lot company.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz25bw3VH2P
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  24. #49
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    ????

  25. #50
    Commandant
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    ????
    some evidence of cnuts getting their just rewards i suppose, bit i'm sad to say that justice for murdered UN PeaceKeepers is not something i'd hold my breath for- nobody wants to know.

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