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  1. #76
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    "Is Dearborn man a war criminal?: Mahmoud Bazzi, a former militiaman in Lebanon now living near Detroit, has been accused of war crimes for the torture-killings of two Irish soldiers during a UN peacekeeping mission in 1980."


  2. #77
    CQMS Tyler Durden's Avatar
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    http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...fy-278482.html

    "A retired Irish soldier has been asked to testify at the deportation hearing of a Lebanese man accused of executing two Irish peacekeepers more than three decades ago.

    John O’Mahony, from Cork, was contacted by the United States embassy in London and asked if he would be willing to tell his story via video link to the hearing, due to be held next Monday in Detroit. "
    If at first you don't succeed, then call in an airstrike.

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  4. #78
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    .........

    He cant be tried in Ireland under present day Irish Law for an alleged crime committed in another country.

    Connaught Stranger[/QUOTE]


    Why so?

  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    .........

    He cant be tried in Ireland under present day Irish Law for an alleged crime committed in another country.

    Connaught Stranger


    Why so?
    Because that's why. Otherwise the UK would have rounded up every provo in munster in the 90s and jailed them under the POTA

  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Why so?
    I believe he could however he would have to hand himself in or travel to Ireland himself and be arrested. He cannot be extradited to Ireland.

  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    I believe he could however he would have to hand himself in or travel to Ireland himself and be arrested. He cannot be extradited to Ireland.
    To answer for what?

  8. #82
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    Mahmoud Bazzi to be deported from US after admitting immigration fraud

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0811/636514-bazzi/

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  10. #83
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    And he is being deported to Lebanon (not Israel)

  11. #84
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    Lebanon will do ‘everything in their power’ to pursue justice over killing of Irish soldiers

    http://www.thejournal.ie/lebanon-cov...18831-Dec2014/

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  13. #85
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    Man suspected of murdering two Irish soldiers in Lebanon deported from US


    Bazzi could ultimately stand trial for the abduction, torture and double killings

    A Lebanese man who is suspected of murdering two Irish soldiers who were serving with the United Nations 34 years ago has been deported from the US back to Lebanon.

    Mahmoud Bazzi, 71, was returned to his home country after admitting immigration fraud.

    He entered the US just over 20 years ago without proper documentation and admitted lying to obtain lawful immigraion status.

    He could ultimately stand trial for the abduction, torture and double killings while serving with a Christian militia.

    Bazzi was transported on a commercial flight from Detroit, where he had been living, to Beirut under escort by officers with the Enforcement and Removal Operations agency.



    He was handed over to Lebanese authorities today.

    The two Irish soldiers, Privates Derek Smallhorne and Thomas Barrett were on duty with the UN Interim Force in Lebanon near the Israeli border on 18 April 1980 when they were captured.

    They had been in a three-vehicle convoy that was stopped by the South Lebanese Army, which was controlling the war-torn region at the time and in conflict with the Palestinian Liberation Organisation.

    Tension was high in the area on the day of the attack as the peacekeepers moved supplies to a border post.

    Twelve days earlier clashes between the SLA and Dutch and Irish soldiers serving with the UN left an Irish man and a militia man dead.

    The SLA had vowed to avenge the killing.

    Today the field officer director for the Enforcement and Removal Operations agency Rebecca Adducci said: "ERO will continue to focus enforcement resources on individuals who lie and commit fraud to gain status in the United States. "

    "This removal should provide a stark warning to those who seek to game the system to obtain immigration benefits."

    "This removal is the culmination of a sophisticated and meticulous investigation by several ICE components," said Marlon Miller, special agent in charge of Homeland Security Investigations Detroit.

    "ICE is committed to ensuring the United States does not serve as a safe haven for individuals seeking to distance themselves from their pasts."
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0130/676831-bazzi/

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  15. #86
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Its being reported he was arrested upon arrival in Beirut, Lebanon, but no mention of the actual charges / reason for his arrest.

    As an ex-46th Battalion man, I want to see justice being done, but not by a kangaroo court.

    Many years have gone by and actual evidence is very thin if not non-existant on the ground,

    certainly that goes for any forensic evidence, and as far as I am aware, once the two Privates were driven away

    from the deralict school in Safe-el-Howa, there are no known eye-witnesses to the following events including the actual

    cold-bloodied murders.

    Only timer will tell how this plays out.

    That said, will there be any attempt by the Irish Government to have Hezbollah, held accountable

    for the deaths of Irish Peace-keepers in U.N.I.F.I.L. laid at their door?

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  17. #87
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    Of course not. That would be like the Govt asking the IRA to hand over terrorists. If Hizbollah won't deal with the actual Lebanese govt, they'd hardly deal with ours.

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  19. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    .........

    He cant be tried in Ireland under present day Irish Law for an alleged crime committed in another country.

    Connaught Stranger
    How so was McAlevy tried here in a civil court?

    Why so?[/QUOTE]

  20. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    Of course not. That would be like the Govt asking the IRA to hand over terrorists. If Hizbollah won't deal with the actual Lebanese govt, they'd hardly deal with ours.
    I thought Bazi was Pro Israeli SLA, enemy of the Hezb?

  21. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    How so was McAlevy tried here in a civil court?

    Why so?
    [/QUOTE]


    He was court marshalled

    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    I thought Bazi was Pro Israeli SLA, enemy of the Hezb?
    He was

  22. #91
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    Item in Dail Answers Wednesday 11th Feb 2015


    Defence Forces Fatalities

    89. Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl asked the Minister for Defence regarding reports that a person (details supplied) suspected of involvement in the killing of persons (details supplied) could go free under an amnesty covering crimes committed during the 1975 to 1990 Lebanese civil war, if he has established whether this is likely to happen; the action he is taking in relation to the issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6330/15]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Simon Coveney): The matter to which the Deputy is referring is the case of the deaths of Private Thomas Barrett and Private Derek Smallhorne who were murdered, and Private John O’Mahony who was seriously injured while serving with the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) on 18 April 1980. In July 2014 the alleged perpetrator, Mr. Mahmoud Bazzi, was arrested by the United States of America’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Agency for administrative immigration violations. During his immigration court hearing in Detroit, on 11 August, Mr. Bazzi admitted that he entered the United States in 1994 without proper documentation. The Judge ruled that Mr. Bazzi be deported to Lebanon. Mr. Bazzi was finally deported from the United States to his native Lebanon on 30 January 2015. On arrival in Beirut, Mr. Bazzi was arrested and detained by the Lebanese authorities where he remains in custody. It is now a matter for the Lebanese authorities to investigate the case. The Irish Ambassador in the region is continuing to monitor developments in the case and is in contact with the Department of Defence.

    Unfortunately, there are no provisions in Irish law, which provide a basis for Ireland to pursue a prosecution against the alleged perpetrator. Lebanon is the country with primary jurisdiction in this case. The Irish Government have requested the support of the Lebanese Government in seeking justice for the murdered Irish UNIFIL peacekeepers, should such action be feasible. During my visit to the Lebanon last December, I met with the Lebanese authorities at the most senior levels of Government and highlighted the Irish Government’s continued commitment and interest in progressing this case.

    I am not in a position to state whether the alleged perpetrator will go free but I can state that we are committed to continuing to do everything possible to pursue justice for both men who lost their lives in the line of peacekeeping duty, and stand ready to provide whatever assistance possible to the Lebanese authorities in progressing this issue. However, it is a matter for the Lebanese authorities to investigate the case and to determine any future action in accordance with their National Legislation and judicial procedures.

  23. #92
    CQMS jack nastyface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran Marum View Post
    Item in Dail Answers Wednesday 11th Feb 2015


    Defence Forces Fatalities

    89. Deputy Seán Ó Fearghaíl asked the Minister for Defence regarding reports that a person (details supplied) suspected of involvement in the killing of persons (details supplied) could go free under an amnesty covering crimes committed during the 1975 to 1990 Lebanese civil war, if he has established whether this is likely to happen; the action he is taking in relation to the issue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6330/15]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Simon Coveney): The matter to which the Deputy is referring is the case of the deaths of Private Thomas Barrett and Private Derek Smallhorne who were murdered, and Private John O’Mahony who was seriously injured while serving with the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL) on 18 April 1980. In July 2014 the alleged perpetrator, Mr. Mahmoud Bazzi, was arrested by the United States of America’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s Agency for administrative immigration violations. During his immigration court hearing in Detroit, on 11 August, Mr. Bazzi admitted that he entered the United States in 1994 without proper documentation. The Judge ruled that Mr. Bazzi be deported to Lebanon. Mr. Bazzi was finally deported from the United States to his native Lebanon on 30 January 2015. On arrival in Beirut, Mr. Bazzi was arrested and detained by the Lebanese authorities where he remains in custody. It is now a matter for the Lebanese authorities to investigate the case. The Irish Ambassador in the region is continuing to monitor developments in the case and is in contact with the Department of Defence.

    Unfortunately, there are no provisions in Irish law, which provide a basis for Ireland to pursue a prosecution against the alleged perpetrator. Lebanon is the country with primary jurisdiction in this case. The Irish Government have requested the support of the Lebanese Government in seeking justice for the murdered Irish UNIFIL peacekeepers, should such action be feasible. During my visit to the Lebanon last December, I met with the Lebanese authorities at the most senior levels of Government and highlighted the Irish Government’s continued commitment and interest in progressing this case.

    I am not in a position to state whether the alleged perpetrator will go free but I can state that we are committed to continuing to do everything possible to pursue justice for both men who lost their lives in the line of peacekeeping duty, and stand ready to provide whatever assistance possible to the Lebanese authorities in progressing this issue. However, it is a matter for the Lebanese authorities to investigate the case and to determine any future action in accordance with their National Legislation and judicial procedures.
    That sounds like politician speak for hes going to get off with it,and there's nothing we can do. As the lads were murdered while on UN service,could the US not have handed the prick over to the UN, or have him tried in the Hague?

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  25. #93
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    How so was McAlevy tried here in a civil court?

    Why so?
    [/QUOTE]

    He (McAlevey) was Court-Martialed, also he was a serving member of the Irish military who inflicted death on fellow members of the Irish Military while on service in South Lebanon with U.N.I.F.I.L.

    Bazi is a Lebanese citizen (and Lebanon at the time was in a state of Civil War) with a breakdown of its civil powers i.e. Law & Order, during which time "Lebanese Law" was not being applied to the area of South Lebanon known as the D.F.F. Enclave.

    From a legal / Law point of view, it has yet to be proven that he (Bazi) carried out the act that lead to the death of the two Irish Peacekeepers, pulled the trigger of the weapon that killed the two Irish Peacekeepers, was operating as a member of the South Lebanese Army at the time of the incident, or his involvement was that of a private citizen acting out of remorse for the death of his brother at At-Tiri a few days before. "blood feud" has been mentioned as being part of the reason for the attack against the Irish, and was certainly talked about while I was there with the 46th Battalion at that time.

    So much time has gone by I don't really see how anything one way or the other can be conclusively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, No forensic evidence, no eye witnesses to the shootings (none of the U.N.D.O.F. team of Harry Klein or the French Officer,/the lone Irish survivor wounded and not present when the two other Irish were lead away, the Newspaper reporters, were not present at the actual location of the shootings of the two murdered Irish soldiers, no Lebanese witnesses, no photographic evidence so on and so forth.

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  27. #94
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    That sounds like politician speak for hes going to get off with it,and there's nothing we can do. As the lads were murdered while on UN service,could the US not have handed the prick over to the UN, or have him tried in the Hague?
    No matter what it sounds like to you or me, the various international LAWs states that a specific criteria has to be met with regards such cases.

    1. Ireland has no Jurisdiction.

    2. The US has no jurisdiction.

    3. The U.N. has no jurisdiction whatsoever, being an organization not a State.

    4. The Hague has no jurisdiction in the case.

    For other points with regards evidence and witnesses see my post above.

    Any suggestions of taking revenge outside the Law, would mean those seeking such action against Mr. Bazi are no better than those who carried out the attacks and cold bloodied murder of the Irish soldiers.

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  29. #95
    CQMS jack nastyface's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
    No matter what it sounds like to you or me, the various international LAWs states that a specific criteria has to be met with regards such cases.

    1. Ireland has no Jurisdiction.

    2. The US has no jurisdiction.

    3. The U.N. has no jurisdiction whatsoever, being an organization not a State.

    4. The Hague has no jurisdiction in the case.

    For other points with regards evidence and witnesses see my post above.

    Any suggestions of taking revenge outside the Law, would mean those seeking such action against Mr. Bazi are no better than those who carried out the attacks and cold bloodied murder of the Irish soldiers.
    Not suggesting action outside the 'LAW' (Which appears to be an ass by the way) Perhaps karma will provide, with a long painful and protracted arse cancer.

  30. #96
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    With respect to the families of his victims,what I was alluding to was that McAlevy was convicted (as I recall) of a Civil offence albeit in a military forum.

  31. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    With respect to the families of his victims,what I was alluding to was that McAlevy was convicted (as I recall) of a Civil offence albeit in a military forum.
    No such thing as a civil offence. Murder is Murder.

  32. #98
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    Not suggesting action outside the 'LAW' (Which appears to be an ass by the way) Perhaps karma will provide, with a long painful and protracted arse cancer.

    I never inferred you did suggest acting outside the LAW, however, on various forums, net postings and amongst veterans conversations suggestions have been made from the ludicrous such as when he was in the USA "The Ranger Wing should be sent in to kidnap him and bring him to Ireland for trial / be shot and dumped / disappear etc..etc.. to "Ireland should threaten the USA to get them to hand him over to us."

    Yes it is certainly irritating that there is no one all encompassing version of the LAW under which the likes of Mr. Bazi could be brought, regardless of what country he resides in, but again the basis of any such LAW requires:- forensic evidence, witness accounts, conclusive proof that the accused did what he is accused of, all of that evidence is sadly lacking.

    Connaught Stranger.

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  34. #99
    CQMS jack nastyface's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Connaught Stranger;423356]I never inferred you did suggest acting outside the LAW, however, on various forums, net postings and amongst veterans conversations suggestions have been made from the ludicrous such as when he was in the USA "The Ranger Wing should be sent in to kidnap him and bring him to Ireland for trial / be shot and dumped / disappear etc..etc.. to "Ireland should threaten the USA to get them to hand him over to us."

    Yes it is certainly irritating that there is no one all encompassing version of the LAW under which the likes of Mr. Bazi could be brought, regardless of what country he resides in, but again the basis of any such LAW requires:- forensic evidence, witness accounts, conclusive proof that the accused did what he is accused of, all of that evidence is sadly lacking.

    Genuine question. Why could he not have been handed over to the international court in the Hague. Give them whatever evidence there is against him?

  35. #100
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    Lebanon isn't a State party to the Rome Statute

    Arguably the ICC couldn't hear the case either

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