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  1. #101
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    At the end of the day, its a photo of someone in the wing, watching a competition, ........big woop.

    It's not like he's in the black kit swinging through windows.

    I'm more impressed that the DF have ranked so highly in the competition. It's good to know that we don't have to be fighting wars all over world in order to achieve the skillset necessary to stand among the top tier of our international competitors.

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  3. #102
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    At the end of the day, its a photo of someone in the wing, watching a competition, ........big woop.

    It's not like he's in the black kit swinging through windows.

    I'm more impressed that the DF have ranked so highly in the competition. It's good to know that we don't have to be fighting wars all over world in order to achieve the skillset necessary to stand among the top tier of our international competitors.
    i totally agree, and as i said before - great shooting - but the comment
    "At the very least they should respect PERSEC and black out the ARW lads face."
    was made by a serving member of the DFI and that is what we were responding to.

    but i say again - the unit / soldiers themselves put themselves into this public event where they knew photos would be taken and details published on the internet - that's what happens in this competition.

    it's not down to the event organisers to apply persec - the buck stops at the unit / soldiers concerned if it really is an issue.
    RGJ

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    The Rifles

  4. #103
    Ex-bagger Big Al's Avatar
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    I'm sure if there was a problem with these photos someone if DFHQ could make a call to someone in fort benning and ask them to be removed...
    Last edited by Big Al; 19th March 2012 at 12:56.
    You're even dumber than I tell people

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  5. #104
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    I'm sure if there was a problem with these photos someone in DFHQ would have realised that entering such an event would no doubt compromise any individuals attending and therefore SF troops would not be authorised to take part.
    fixed that for ya.

    good shooting though.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  6. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    i totally agree, and as i said before - great shooting - but the comment was made by a serving member of the DFI and that is what we were responding to.

    but i say again - the unit / soldiers themselves put themselves into this public event where they knew photos would be taken and details published on the internet - that's what happens in this competition.

    it's not down to the event organisers to apply persec - the buck stops at the unit / soldiers concerned if it really is an issue.
    Of course it is down to the organisers, especially if they're publishing photo's, to apply PERSEC.

    What I'd most likely put it down to, is the lines getting blurred between how the US and the Irish do it. With their varying levels of SOF over there, different levels of PERSEC apply to different units. For instance, it's mostly only their Tier 1 unit's who don't have personal details released.

    A mix up but it's nowhere near close to the soldier's fault. He didn't even know the photo was being taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Al View Post
    I'm sure if there was a problem with these photos someone if DFHQ could make a call to someone in fort benning and ask them to be removed...
    Last time I spoke to someone from the Press Office, they weren't even aware the competition had taken place.

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  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwiftandSure View Post
    I'm more impressed that the DF have ranked so highly in the competition. It's good to know that we don't have to be fighting wars all over world in order to achieve the skillset necessary to stand among the top tier of our international competitors.
    Especially since it was a sniper pair from a conventional Unit, using a different armies rifle, that did so well.

    Just goes to show that the level of skills being taught on the Basic and Instructor Courses are obviously of a high standard.

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  10. #107
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    The comp also hosted a symposium for SFs to discuss /exchange views and experiences.

  11. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Alaska View Post
    What I'd most likely put it down to, is the lines getting blurred between how the US and the Irish do it. With their varying levels of SOF over there, different levels of PERSEC apply to different units. For instance, it's mostly only their Tier 1 unit's who don't have personal details released.
    Actually, between the US and everybody else... the fact that their SOF community is so large gives them the opportunity to "make someone disappear" for a while. We do not have that luxury with small SOF.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

  12. #109
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    The comp also hosted a symposium for SFs to discuss /exchange views and experiences.
    pictures?




    RGJ

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  13. #110
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    but the comment was made by a serving member of the DFI and that is what we were responding to.
    I thought you had decided we were the IDF now mate.Which is it??
    but i say again - the unit / soldiers themselves put themselves into this public event where they knew photos would be taken and details published on the internet - that's what happens in this competition.
    How in the name of god is a military sniping competition on a Military base a "Public event"?
    The Easter Sunday March past and review in 2006 was a "Public event " and look at the lengths the Wing lads went too that day to hide their identities.
    I agree with Alaska.it is most likely that the officer didn't even know he was being photographed.

    it's not down to the event organisers to apply persec - the buck stops at the unit / soldiers concerned if it really is an issue.
    In this day and age it is down to ALL soldiers to apply and respect PERSEC and OPSEC.Especially when it comes to pictures of SF.Be they your own lads or foreign.
    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

  14. #111
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    DFI it is now mate.

    and when i say public - i mean in the public eye - as all those pictures are available to everyone in the world (except China perhaps).

    by the sounds of it they weren't ARW anyhow, so either way lets not let that detract from their performance on the day, and well done to the DFI soldiers concerned.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

  15. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    pictures?
    Sorry,just text on the sites concerned,Ammoland and Army snipers assoc.
    The event was open to the public subject to id,lots of photo opps for everybody.
    The winners got optics from thesponsors,do these accrue personally or to unit if a DF or BA team involved.
    The DFI branding is contrary to the DA 1954 which specifically states the name in English to be the "defence forces",thats what matters. We only have one DF here ,there is no id crisis,no need to include "Ireland" in everything.

  16. #113
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    Just on the matter of PERSEC... The new film 'Act of Valour' out friday is acted out with active duty SEAL team members
    and these are Tier 1 operators.
    If the individual soldier is willing to be in position where they are photographed or filmed yes there are risks but it also advertises
    the capabilities of a nations elite units & can be benifical also if it's handled well.

    If the lads named/pictured are active ARW then surely winning an international comp is a good thing?!
    Life's short, party naked :-)

  17. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    The DFI branding is contrary to the DA 1954 which specifically states the name in English to be the "defence forces",thats what matters. We only have one DF here ,there is no id crisis,no need to include "Ireland" in everything.
    tell that to the DFI:



    (or IDF?):



    source: www.military.ie (Official Website of the DFI / IDF)
    RGJ

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    The Rifles

  18. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad P View Post
    Just on the matter of PERSEC... The new film 'Act of Valour' out friday is acted out with active duty SEAL team members
    and these are Tier 1 operators.
    Not quite true; only one Seal Team is tier-1.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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  20. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    tell that to the DFI:



    (or IDF?):



    source: www.military.ie (Official Website of the DFI / IDF)
    Maybe they should be called the Irish Defence Forces of Ireland (IDFI); this way there would be no chance of confusion. Then let's say in the future they decide to activate a type of foreign legion, for discussion sake let's say they are Scottish, they could be called the Scottish Defence Forces of Ireland (SDFI). There; now somebody go tell your Minister for Defence...

    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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  22. #117
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    the photo seems to be gone now any way

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  24. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    tell that to the DFI:



    (or IDF?):



    source: www.military.ie (Official Website of the DFI / IDF)
    That's advantage RGJ (as they say in tennis circles) to be fair...

    Although as Danno said, the Defence Act is correct, as it has legal basis...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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  26. #119
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    Photo removed

  27. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Photo removed
    ......the memory endures etc.

    Opsec etc aside those lads are top of their game and worthy of pride/respect.The whole public perception should be better managed,the unit is far from being considered the DFs dirty little secret.

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  29. #121
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  31. #122
    CQMS fiannoglach's Avatar
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    Results from DF Snipcon 2012

    1st Team - ARW
    2nd Team - 4 Bn
    3rd Team - 28 Bn

    Best Sniper - ARW
    Best Spotter - 4 Bn

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  33. #123
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    What's involved in the competition?
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  34. #124
    CQMS fiannoglach's Avatar
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    The competiton covers all the Sniper Skills over the 5 days of competition - Shooting (Known and Unknown Distance, Day and Night), Judging Distance, Pistol Shooting, LFTT, Navigation, Observation and Stalking.

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  36. #125
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    I have just come across your submission and read your quotation. It may be that I should not but I can not help but ask ; was Winston talking to his girl friend at the time ?

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