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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Fight Light
    Serious thread resurrection!

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    • It’s the way forward and will dramatically change.

      Means that you only carry on you/on your battlevest/on your daysack/in your Bergen what you need for the immediate mission

      Don’t need it? Drop it

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      • Fight Light is a product of the Combat estimate and not just soldiers dumping what they don't want to carry.You still have to bring the kit but what you carry at any given time is dictated by the mission,threat,weather conditions etc etc.
        Example: "You are doing a short duration standing foot patrol lasting no more than four hours.The weather is hot and dry(recent conditions).You have just eaten/hydrated before departure.The enemy have limited IDF and CBRN capabilities and have not used them recently in your A.O. I.E.D threat is zero but the enemy do have medium direct fire capability.The enemy has no armour.You are departing at 0700 during summer time."

        From that lads what do you think you would bring or NOT bring??

        Fight Light does away with rigid packing lists of kit that you carry all the time no matter what.You still tell the troops what to carry but now you can tell them what NOT to carry also.IE Leave your jetboil in your bergen in the harbour whilst doing PIA as you wont be brewing up during.
        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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        • As in D.R.O.P.

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          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            As in D.R.O.P.
            Dev.You and I both know my response was not directed at you.I KNOW you know what I am on about.
            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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            • D.R.O.P?

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              • Project Payne
                Uk combat load - Download as a PDF or view online for free


                DROP is in there

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                • This is a UK link Does this concept apply to the defence forces now?
                  "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                  "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                  • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                    This is a UK link Does this concept apply to the defence forces now?

                    Yes

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                    • Cheers. Makes sense

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                      • Obviously with various changes due to types of equipment in use etc

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                        • Bit more open source info
                          Since there were first soldiers, the weight they have carried has been subject to cyclical variation. The upward trend that saw its zenith during operations in Afghanistan is now subject to realisation that it is both unsustainable and undesirable.


                          DISMOUNTED CLOSE COMBAT LOAD CARRIAGE PROJECT PAYNE FIGHT LIGHT  AND WHAT IT MEANS TO THE AVERAGE SOLDIER Written by Tom Cooper ...

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                          • Some more ideas on FL from down under.
                            Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.

                            Auf YouTube findest du die angesagtesten Videos und Tracks. Außerdem kannst du eigene Inhalte hochladen und mit Freunden oder gleich der ganzen Welt teilen.



                            I say again FL is a mindset.If you look at the pack video they are still packing a "Baseline" of kit. That can be added to or subtracted from depending on your Combat estimate.
                            EG: Only out for 24 plus one overnight: Get rid of Bergen sidepouches. Reduce water carried( Climate dependent).Bin the full change of clothes. Reduce rations carried etc.
                            Same is done for the patrolpack. Whatever you don't need for the task at hand goes in the Bergen and gets "DROPed". Do I need to carry a full 24 hrs ORP when I have just eaten and I know I am getting fed after the mission? No? "DROP" it. Carry E-Rats just in case of mission creep instead. Is it daytime? will the task be finished by dusk? Bin the NVE.(Oh and dont even go there with "What about "Blackhawk down" People. That was a f**k up because their was no plan to bring forward Ammo/NVE/Rations/Water etc as they assumed they were going to be back in a few hours. Fight Light depends on a proper threat analysis and a proper CSS resup plan if things go tits up).

                            Moral of the story.Don't carry on you what you don't need,but make sure you know for sure you won't need it before you bin it.Don't pack stuff "Just in case". If the weather report says there is a 90% chance it is going to be dry then don't bring waterproofs. If the 10% chance of rain decides to show up.Tough.We are soldiers we can take a little bit of discomfort until we get back to our Bergens to change out.

                            Infantry ethos No1: "Embrace hardship".
                            Last edited by apod; 15 August 2018, 14:50.
                            "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

                            Comment


                            • I read a report from the US Army in Afghanistan of troops dumping practically everything in order to engage with the enemy.

                              Despite the fitness levels of the US troops involved being high, they were carrying too much gear and couldn't react fast enough or engage with the enemy in time. Taliban would ambush US troops who would react only to find the Taliban had moved. Then the Taliban would re-engage and slowly the US troops would be pulled further and further from their base, and would be more and more fatigued. Taliban would then counterattack at the right time. The US Army could not react fast enough or target the Taliban as they couldn't get eyes on the target long enough. If they didn't react, they were handing the initiative over to the Taliban and weren't dominating the ground.

                              Over time, some US troops took to having all their kit in in the OP but reacting immediately to Taliban attacks - dumping helmets, body armour etc. until they had a rifle, a few mags and a bottle of water. 9 times out of 10, they were able to catch the Taliban in the open moving from position to position. Reaction times were much faster.

                              But, the higher-ups hated it.
                              Last edited by Poiuyt; 15 August 2018, 13:42.

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                              • The snag is the higher ups are risk adverse due to high profile court cases brought about by soldiers being killed because the were not wearing PPE or PPE being inadequate.
                                Why do you think the DF has invested so much money on PPE in recent years.It's not keeping up with the joneses.It's an anti-claim tactic.

                                PPE needs to be scalable for FL to work.Combat estimate should advise the Commander on the ground as to the threat/risk and they should be able to order the troops to scale up/down PPE accordingly.Of course Commanders need to have confidence that they will be backed if things go wrong also.
                                "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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