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What do you carry on your webbing/smock?

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  • Of course that PPE (be it knee pads, goggles, body armour, helmet, ECM, ESST kit etc) also has to be designed to be lighter, smaller and more flexible.

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      Of course that PPE (be it knee pads, goggles, body armour, helmet, ECM, ESST kit etc) also has to be designed to be lighter, smaller and more flexible.
      That solves nothing.All they do is give you more stuff to carry then.(under the current mindset)

      Yes. Lighter SAPI plates would be nice,but I would also like to see a scalable system that allows Commanders the flexibility to decide if plates/soft armour are even needed for a specific task instead of the "You must wear the GSBA complete at all times".
      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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      • Originally posted by apod View Post
        That solves nothing.All they do is give you more stuff to carry then.(under the current mindset)

        Yes. Lighter SAPI plates would be nice,but I would also like to see a scalable system that allows Commanders the flexibility to decide if plates/soft armour are even needed for a specific task instead of the "You must wear the GSBA complete at all times".
        Absolutely!!!

        But to me (to a degree), Fight Light has become necessary due to overburdening the troops with heavy PPE

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Absolutely!!!

          But to me (to a degree), Fight Light has become necessary due to overburdening the troops with heavy PPE
          It totally is.We carried X amount of kit before PPE was a thing.Then they added PPE but never reduced the amount of kit accordingly.

          Load carriage and PPE states should work in tandem .They are not mutually exclusive.
          "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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          • 75 years ago the infantry were clearing streets carrying nothing but water bottles and helmets.

            Spare ammo / bombs were carried in their trouser pockets
            'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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            • But you also face the ongoing issue of blame and responsibility. Force Commander looks at intelligence, sees no issue and allows the force to fight light. Someone gets killed - all the intell in the world won't save him or her if the media decide to make an issue of it. Easiest option is just play it safe.

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              • Originally posted by spider View Post
                75 years ago the infantry were clearing streets carrying nothing but water bottles and helmets.

                Spare ammo / bombs were carried in their trouser pockets
                I remember George McDonald Frasier making the same point in 1993 in "Quartered Safe Out Here".
                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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                • They also used to wear steel helmets, hobnailed boots and bulls wool uniforms. Times change

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                  • They also used to have horrendous casualty rates which have been minimized thanks to modern CBA/technology
                    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

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                    • Oh I know all that...

                      Anyway what would I carry in my smock / webbing...a tourniquet...and one in my trouser pocket...even in training.
                      'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                      • Tom hanks fought the germans in normandy with just a water bottle...
                        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                        • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                          Tom hanks fought the germans in normandy with just a water bottle...
                          And a bottomless magazine...
                          'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                          'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                          Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                          He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                          http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                            Tom hanks fought the germans in normandy with just a water bottle...
                            Tom Hanks is second only to Chuck Norris though...

                            'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                            • Originally posted by Poiuyt View Post
                              But you also face the ongoing issue of blame and responsibility. Force Commander looks at intelligence, sees no issue and allows the force to fight light. Someone gets killed - all the intell in the world won't save him or her if the media decide to make an issue of it. Easiest option is just play it safe.
                              Being risk adverse is a direct contradiction of Mission Command. Mission Command is part of our doctrine now.
                              What need to happen is set a baselevel for PPE that you don't go below,whilst having a scalable system and the doctrine and CSS to support it. Having said that if set a baslevel for PPE then FL is a must as you HAVE to reduce all the other kit you carry to offset the weight.
                              "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                              • Higher ups are risk adverse but fail to realise being immobile can be just as risky as being “light”.
                                Also being risk adverse is completely negated when the current individual issue med kit is a 4 inch field dressing.

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