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  1. #51
    Lieutenant Muzzle's Avatar
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    If you have all that in your pockets what are you keeping in your webbing?

    Is it just me who thinks that thats a ridiculas amount of stuff to have in pockets. Can you crawl and lie confortably on your front? What do you do if you have to take your smock off?

  2. #52
    Corporal Arty Farty's Avatar
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    remember the old saying folks "Live with the contents of your backpack; Fight with the contents of your webbing and Survive with the contents of your jacket"

    I don't mean to be smart when I say this Bam Bam but if you've got all that kit in your jacket I'd hate to see how much you've got in your webbing... and that would be BEFORE you load up all your ammo.

    Search the Military.ie website and download the Connect posters for admin in the field
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  3. #53
    2/Lt strummer's Avatar
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    Will someone just give this guy a copy of that manual or appendix or whatever he's looking for...

    I'm getting sick of this thread.

    Later.
    No-one, I think, is in my tree...

  4. #54
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    Ok muzzle, arty farty if you were on the ground for 24 - 72 hrs, pocket by pocket as I've done, what would you have in your smock?

    Bear in mind this setup works for me and each piece has an important role.

    I thought of different problems I may encounter on the ground, and I want to be able to take care of myself.

    As for if I'm comfortable lying down. The main time I'd be lying down with this amount of kit is during a section / platoon in attack, and you have more important things to consider then "am I comfortable?"
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  5. #55
    Lieutenant Muzzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bam Bam
    Ok muzzle, arty farty if you were on the ground for 24 - 72 hrs, pocket by pocket as I've done, what would you have in your smock?

    As for if I'm comfortable lying down. The main time I'd be lying down with this amount of kit is during a section / platoon in attack, and you have more important things to consider then "am I comfortable?"
    Nothing it would all be in my webbing and backpack/day sack. The odd time I put choc or biscuits in the top pockets but they tend to get squashed and grubby so I try not to. Maps are grand in those pockets as well as there is nowhere in the webbing that would house them easily enough. Generally if you have a map it would be in a map case hung around your kneck though. Took a disposable camera on one exercise and kept it in the top pockets but it got cracked from lying on it and ruiened a few good shots.

    What about lying in an OP for a few hours (or days) or in a covering postion for an ambush? Do your bulging pockets restrict you movment (crawling or standing)?

    As for "Live with the contents of your backpack; Fight with the contents of your webbing and Survive with the contents of your jacket" Iv never heard that saying. You Live out of you backpack but you fight and survive out of your webbing. What ever about taking on and off a jacket your webbing should be the one thing (other then your weapon) that you never take off. Think of how many pictures of guys patroling with and with out smocks have you seen from Liberia, East Timor the Leb? You will never see them without webbing.

    The smock is technically comabt wear (i.e. a must) but realistically you will take it off and put it on as your needs change. If you are happy with you setup go for it, I personally would shift 95% of that stuff to webbing.

  6. #56
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    For use in the field just follow the admin guidelines laid out in the connect foldout as closely as you can, compass on all, its not much good saying compasses are corporals kit if your a private thats gotten lost, my unit teaches basic map and compass work at the earliest opportunity and Im very frightened by the idea of anyone getting three stars before they can nav.
    As for the comfort issue, for field use the smock should have the drawstrings pulled in as tight as possible, with the bottom of the pockets just under the hip bones, if you pack the kit well and tie the most common items (compass, torch with batteries, Spoon etc) to the pockets it will make life a lot easier... the idea that you should always carry as little as possible belongs back in the day of obese platoon sergeants and privates with bottles of coke in their webbing.

    Theres an admin instruction for a reason if you know so much better Id suggest you apply to the DFTC for a position making them.
    Last edited by Come-quickly; 25th November 2004 at 18:34.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bam Bam
    Okay I've got a list together for what I have in my smock when I go out on the ground:

    Bottom Left Pocket
    - Burnshields
    - Pocket First Aid
    - Exam Gloves
    - Crepe Bandage

    Bottom Right Pocket
    - Fingerless Gloves
    - Soldier 95 Gloves
    - Bush Hat
    - MultiTool

    Top Left Pocket
    - Scrim net
    - Right Angle Torch
    - Painkillers
    - Spoon
    - Shemagh

    Top Right Pocket
    - MagLite
    - Mozzie Net
    - Tissues
    - Camo Stick
    - Whistle
    - Weapon Camo Set and Monocular
    - Mirror Wrapped In A Cloth
    - Sweeties

    Left Arm Pocket
    - Waterproof Pen
    - Water Soluble Pen
    - Normal Pen
    - Elastic Bands
    - Chinograph Pencil
    - Flint and Striker
    - Fishing Kit
    - Pencil Sharpener
    - Zippo Lighter

    First Aid Pocket
    - Field Dressing
    - Exam Gloves

    Inside Pocket
    - Map
    - Compass
    - TacAid (When I'm a Corporal)
    Left ammo pouch:
    - sink, kitchen type

    Right ammo pouch:
    - pear tree, c/w partridge

    water bottle pouch/respirator pouch/utility pouches:
    - the rest of me gaff

    Rucksack, main:
    - the world...

    Rucksack, side pouches:
    - ...and his wife.

  8. #58
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    From the ARW poster in connect:

    Top left-
    Chinagraph pencils
    compass
    tac aide
    small torch
    waterproof markers
    whistle

    Bottom Left -
    bush hat
    fingerless gloves

    Arm Left -
    fd dressing

    Bottom Right -
    map
    tissues

    Top Right -
    combat survival tin
    high carbohydrate food
    lighter
    spoon

  9. #59
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    Actually the kit in my smock is a direct evolution from that list.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  10. #60
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    The arw kit list is a very good guide.Not too much or too little.Bam Bam looking at your list i would say you are possibly carrying too much kit.Some items such as glove you are duplicating.Fair enough i carry two pairs aswell but one pair,soldier 95,for wet weather is carried in the shoot and scoot bag along with neckwarmer and skipcap.The fingerless gloves go in the smock when not worn.
    tm 201 kit list is now out of date.The new kit list is at the back of the new tam.The bum bag (respirator case is never worn on the cefo now)and daysacks have started to make the wearing of rocket pouches obsolete.This has led to a re assesment based on what soldiers actually carry aswell as the recommened items.
    Two field dressings are the way to go.Bullets make two holes remember.Good point about not allways wearing the smock.you shoul be able to transfer items to your shirt/pants/cefo in hot weather.pm me if you want more hints :wink:

  11. #61
    Captain Truck Driver's Avatar
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    Yes, Murph, that's the same one that appeared in An Cosantoir a few months ago.
    As for (Trellheim?) keeping fags in the pocket of the combat jacket, I'd say the
    aforementioned cigarettes are in a fine state (the phrase "squashed in shite" comes to
    mind) after a few section in attack drills !!!

  12. #62
    Beard On T.I.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV
    There was an excellent foldout in Connect a few months ago, based on what is carried, where & why for the Std NCOs Cse, run by the NCO Training Wing.
    .
    in the TAM 2003 theres a suggested load to carry in chapter 6 i think!
    Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

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  13. #63
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.I.M.
    in the TAM 2003 theres a suggested load to carry in chapter 6 i think!
    Is is only a very rough guide. Units SOPs are far more detailed.

  14. #64
    Beard On T.I.M.'s Avatar
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    but your unit SOP's dont leave any room for personal preffrence, i hate carrying things in my leg pockets!
    Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

    http://www.iamawesome.com/

  15. #65
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    The Army doesn't really care about your "personal preference". The SOPs exist for a reason and your preference is not one of them.

  16. #66
    Sergeant Major
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy
    where am I supposed to keep my fags?
    The compass pouch (on the 58) is good for that. I have seen it used.
    Last edited by bulldemboots!; 1st December 2004 at 22:41.

  17. #67
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldemboots!
    The compass pouch (on the 58) is good for that. I have seen it used.
    What compass pouch on the '58?

  18. #68
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    Look up the silvermans website and you will see it docman aswell as the 58 binos pouch.Both of which were on issue to officers in the pdf when we used 58.As for rigidly sticking to sops when it comes to kit packing i would say try to stick to it as much as possible when it comes to vital items.Ammo,ffd etc.However you should allow troops to be flexible aslong as they have all the kit they should have.
    If everyone stuck rigidly to sops all the time then no one would try anything new and better ways of doing things would never evolve.EG:brits in falklands war use private purchase bergans as opposed to the "sop" 58 ptn one.B.A notice this and developed the far superior plce bergan that we have today.

  19. #69
    Beard On T.I.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Docman
    The Army doesn't really care about your "personal preference"..
    oh i think otherwise... infact im sure thats why we have such large buttons on our smocks, cause its would be kinda hard to open with your gloves on while your out on the groud in a trench in the glen at minus 4 degrees!


    The SOPs exist for a reason and your preference is not one of them.
    yes i know, to eliminate confusion for example! but never the less why do your unit's sops say you carry a mag in your pocket of your smock and not your trouser pocket? you can take your smock off easly, you cant do the same with trousers...


    now, theres fsome food for thought!
    Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

    http://www.iamawesome.com/

  20. #70
    Closed Account Docman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod
    As for rigidly sticking to sops when it comes to kit packing i would say try to stick to it as much as possible when it comes to vital items.Ammo,ffd etc.However you should allow troops to be flexible aslong as they have all the kit they should have.
    ssshhhh Don't tell T.I.M. that.

    No I was trying to make the point that unit SOPs are a good "guide" and that there are certain essentials that have to be followed, ie ammo ffd etc. I for one don't stick very rigidly to the SOPs. However I insist that recruits do until they have the experience to decide for themselves.

    oh i think otherwise... infact im sure thats why we have such large buttons on our smocks, cause its would be kinda hard to open with your gloves on while your out on the groud in a trench in the glen at minus 4 degrees!
    That is an operational matter. Leads to increased fighting efficiency. However the choice between the Blue sweet or the red sweet is personal preference. That is what I am talking about.

    yes i know, to eliminate confusion for example! but never the less why do your unit's sops say you carry a mag in your pocket of your smock and not your trouser pocket? you can take your smock off easly, you cant do the same with trousers...
    Because it is easier for the elements to get at it and increases the chance of stoppages!!! Then again, each unit has its own SOPs. Heard of the mag in the pocket, haven't heard of it being done in a while. We tend to put the ammo in our webbing but then again we don't get enough ammo to go hiding any away.

  21. #71
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    OH sweet jesus.AMMO pouches are for ammo,pockets are for field admin.END OF STORY.In the pdf we NEVER EVER put ammo in our pockets it so is so tactically unsound as to be almost suicidal.

  22. #72
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    The 4bn were carrying a steyr mag in the inside pocket of the smock last time i looked at their sop....or it may have been the 12th. I'll look for it and show you on your return.

  23. #73
    Sergeant Major
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod
    AMMO pouches are for ammo,pockets are for field admin.END OF STORY.In the pdf we NEVER EVER put ammo in our pockets it so is so tactically unsound as to be almost suicidal.
    Yeah but if youre on security duty (in the RDF) without webbing, which is only provided, in general, if you're doing security in barracks (in place of PDF personnel) you have to put the mag(s) in your pockets!

  24. #74
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Thats what the pocket of the flak jacket is for though...

  25. #75
    2/Lt strummer's Avatar
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    Someone should've told the guy I used to see on gate duty on the canal entrance, (by the motor pool) to Cathal Brugha. He always had his pants cargo pockets crammed with Steyr mags. Granted, this was a good few years ago.

    Later.
    No-one, I think, is in my tree...

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