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  1. #101
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Then again...thats arw selection...not RDF 24 hour exercises(unless it rains,and we return to barracks cos nobody has raingear)

  2. #102
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    The article on admin in the field on the PDF Standard NCO's course, as written by Sgt Mick Smith from the NCO Training Wing (published in Connect Feb 2004) has this to say:

    Smock/Pockets:
    Field Dressing with a pair of surgical gloves, waterproofed. Camouflage cream, mirror and a universal tool/knife should be carried. Two torches are needed: a right-angled type with filters and a lightweight one, both with spare batteries taped to them. You will need a superfine mosquito net as well as insect repellent and light gloves, which should all be stored together. Para cord: you will need a large amount. Remember if you put it up, remember to take it down again. Tac Aide: to include sentry rosters & contact reports, ammo casualty state to be carried on the person. Carry a minimum of two compasses with luminous strips, whistle & spare lighter, carried on cord, and a small set of binos. Documentation: maps, aerial photos, notebook (all waterproofed), permanent pen, pencils and casualty cards. Small housewife and survival kit: Contains small sewing kit and emergency first kit (including space blanket).

    Bergen:
    Sleeping System: consisting of a sleeping bag, kip mat, bivvy bag and basha, is usually placed at the base of the main pack. Consider stuffing your sleeping bag into the bivvy bag. Roll your basha around your kip mat and attach to the top of your bergen. You can pre-attach bungee cords to the basha for quick & easy erection. If the bergen is not packed properly and equally balanced it will result in back injury. Rocket pouches should be packed with minimum weight: they are primarily used in the advance to contact or offence and should not restrict movement or be heavily laden. They are also used to carry ammo and/or medical bag. They should be clearly marked: white for ammo & red for section medical bag.Individual Protection Equipment (IPE) is carried in the IPE bag within the rocket pouches. Consisting of IPE suit (trousers & jacket), boots & gloves. The respirator, canister (and spare) and drining attachment are carried in the respirator pouch. The respiratoris carried seperate from the Belf Order depending on the dress cat or threat. Shovels: Entrenching tool, small & big shovel. The big shovel is carried on the outside of the pack and should have a sandbag covering to prevent shine.Wets should be in good condition; if torn they should be replaced. Rank markings and name tags should be worn. In inclement weather you should have gaiters, leather gloves, headgear and a scarf. Clothing: Clothing should be in good repair and examined for it's heat value, size and quality. Polyester thermal sweaters will keep the body warm & reduce the risk of hypothermia when used as part of a layer system. You may be able to get away with one pair of DPM trousers, depending on the weather and pack space. Pack spare clothes on top of the sleeping bag in waterproof bags. Some form of jacket or insulation should be worn at night. High activity: dress down. Low activity: dress up.

    Patrol Pack:
    When patrolling it should be on top of the main pack and easily accessible, if there is a threat the main pack should be dropped and the patrol pack retained. It should contain an emergency brew kit (tea/coffee, hexi and chocolate) as well as items of ordnance (Kite sight, ammo or signals kit).

    Belt Order:
    Used to carry arc markers, binos, eating utensils and emergency brew kit, glovers, goggles, emergency medical kit, model kit, rifle cleaning kit, spare kit (socks), snap lights and guides.Carried on top of the belt order are sand bags and the GPMG spare parts kit. On the belt itself, a second FFD. You should add on an extra pouch for the amount of kit you carry and use a bungee to keep it tight & secure either around or through the belt. If you can get a secateurs they are very handy for local foliage, camouflage & concealment. Additional field dressing should be carried on belf order, secured with gaffa tape in a plastic bag. Rifle Cleaning Kit should contain flannelette, pull-through complete, surgical gloves (carbon and cuts don't mix), scouring pad, safety pin for BFA to clean out the small hole in the top. Goggles: To protect eyes while working in the forest. Should have a dark lens to prevent any bright lights reflecting. Arc markers: Designed for use in a shell scrape or base camp to indicate arcs of fire. Tent pegs: Tie down the basha and remember to take them all up again after use. GPMG spare parts wallet: As soon as it is drawn from stores it's contents should be checked - flannelette (should be in a plastic bag), oil (full bottle), at platoon level there should be one wrench for taking off the BFA. The pouch is carried on top of the belt order and secured with a bungee. Two sandbags: Multiple uses: overhead protection and bottom of the shel scrape, for ammo or rations re-supply and POW handling. Illums (on issue) and directional arrows are ideal for guiding troops through narrow forest tracks or thick vegitation. POW handling kit (one per section): Should include sandbags, flexi-cuffs & POW documentation. Model kit: Containing cards with military symbols clearly marked, chalk and ribbons. Leather gloves: Many uses, primarily for inclement weather, for carrying the GPMG (sweaty hands may slip onto the barrel causing burns), to cook with (also preventing burns to hands). Metal mug: recommended because it is easier to cook with. Cutlery should be contained in the mug with a small towel for cleaning.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  3. #103
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    And remember what von Clauswitz said.....

    "Every soldier should carry an axe lest he need to break down a door"

  4. #104
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Those two articles are the only things Connect had to say on the subject for the past few years. I think that's as much as anyone can say without referring to restricted material.

    In both cases the authors stress that the lists are suggestions & referr the reader to the appropriate manual or their NCO's.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  5. #105
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    http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn/Forums/v...c/t=14328.html

    Theres no problem on arrse about telling people what they carry on their webbing.

    as strummer said, i was just looking for advice. I do have the aforementioned article from connect, and i have been using it as a basis for what i will carry. Should there be much difference in what can be carried between 58 and PLCE? I ask this as the article was written or PLCE. I have photocopies from a book which i am also using as a guide, this uses 58 patt as the basis (PLCE was just being trialled at the time, so BA units still had 58)

  6. #106
    Beard On T.I.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    And remember what von Clauswitz said.....

    "Every soldier should carry an axe lest he need to break down a door"
    if i remember it correctly that was the first stage of overloading troops... but i like his thinking!
    Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

    http://www.iamawesome.com/

  7. #107
    The Man on the Telly combatlogo's Avatar
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    Click here

    An excellent read about the perils of overlaoding troops.
    "Hello, Good Evening and Bollocks..."

    Roger Mellie

  8. #108
    2/Lt Bosco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bulldemboots!
    Second smock. Nice for some...
    its all about acquisition
    or just bugging the Q until they give in
    Lifes a bitch, so be her pimp!

  9. #109
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    bump.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  10. #110
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The course SOPs for carriage of equipment for the British Army's School of Infantry (for section to platoon commanders)

    http://www.atra.mod.uk/atra/INFBATTS...n/KIT_LIST.htm

  11. #111
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV
    The course SOPs for carriage of equipment for the British Army's School of Infantry (for section to platoon commanders)

    http://www.atra.mod.uk/atra/INFBATTS...n/KIT_LIST.htm
    Lets stick to Irish SOPs for the moment. :redface:

  12. #112
    Nijmegen Neanderthal Eddie Dillon's Avatar
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    In fairness, who in the hell is going to have anything like the list of equipment Fmolloy posted. This is the RDF.

    Forest goggles? If there's anyone who went away and bought forest goggles or an entrenching tool, well, good luck to you and your expectations of the FCA experience.
    "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

    Otto Von Bismark

  13. #113
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Dillon
    In fairness, who in the hell is going to have anything like the list of equipment Fmolloy posted. This is the RDF.

    Forest goggles? If there's anyone who went away and bought forest goggles or an entrenching tool, well, good luck to you and your expectations of the FCA experience.
    I know someone who has bought a set of NVE goggles

  14. #114
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    What generation?

  15. #115
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Dillon
    In fairness, who in the hell is going to have anything like the list of equipment Fmolloy posted. This is the RDF.

    Forest goggles? If there's anyone who went away and bought forest goggles or an entrenching tool, well, good luck to you and your expectations of the FCA experience.
    A bloke on the 2004 (IIRC) E bde standards course picked up a nasty eye injury while moving through a forest at night.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  16. #116
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    I wear the ESS shades with the clear lens when moving in forests at night.

    I'd risk the shine from the lens rather then the loss of an eye.
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  17. #117
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    If you don't have it you're going home.
    So if you dont wear gear that you were not issued in the first place, your going home?
    Glad im not in your unit. How do you force troops who cant afford gucci kit, to be fully equipped out of their own pockets?

    By the way, i understand its safer to wear them, its just that when the ammount of kit required to be an effective trooper is compared with the ammount of effective kit issued, it leaves a lot to be desired and a lighter wallet.
    Last edited by morpheus; 8th July 2005 at 10:06.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  18. #118
    Nijmegen Neanderthal Eddie Dillon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    That stuff is SOP for exercises I've been on. If you don't have it you're going home.
    Of course it is and should be SOP. All that kit is necessary and needed by a military force, but in Ireland it is not issued to soldiers, at least reservists, and it costs a tidy sum to kit yourself up fully. To send someone home for not forking out hundreds for kit you'll probably use very rarely is rediculous. Issue it or improvise.
    "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

    Otto Von Bismark

  19. #119
    2/Lt strummer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    That stuff is SOP for exercises I've been on. If you don't have it you're going home.

    Are these unit exercises? Does your unit issue all of this equipment to soldiers? Do you really send unit members home if they don't have all the equipment that hasn't been issued to them? Are you making your junior enlisted buy equipment with their own money just so they can go on exercises? Are only the "gear-queers" allowed to go on your unit exercises?

    Buy gear or go home???

    And you want to be an officer !!!!?????


    Later.
    No-one, I think, is in my tree...

  20. #120
    Beard On T.I.M.'s Avatar
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    Strummer were you born a prick or did you have to work on it...
    Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

    http://www.iamawesome.com/

  21. #121
    Beard On T.I.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMolloy
    A bloke on the 2004 (IIRC) E bde standards course picked up a nasty eye injury while moving through a forest at night.
    all the standard cse last year had safety glasses care of one of the students... even got me a set of him...

    ive used them plenty since then and i can say they worked like a charm... sadily they dont stop said branches entering the nostril or mouth...
    Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...

    http://www.iamawesome.com/

  22. #122
    2/Lt strummer's Avatar
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    You haven't really answered any of the questions.

    You've been issued some of the equipment and "acquired" the rest. What about everyone else? Have they not being issued with basic field gear? Do they have to "acquire" some basic gear too? What does "acquire" mean? Beg? Borrow? Steal? Buy with their own money?

    Do you disallow members who haven't been issued with all the required equipment from attending official exercises? If so, why aren't your unit leadership (NCO's and Officers) working on getting this equipment as a top priority?

    Are you making your junior soldiers spend their own money on equipment that should be issued to them in the first placed? Forcing them to be "gear-queers" or finding another unit for themselves?

    "Acquire gear or go home"....a new low for the FCA, eh?

    I thought you were undertaking some sort of commissioning program. My mistake.


    Later.
    No-one, I think, is in my tree...

  23. #123
    airborne daddy ex pat 007's Avatar
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    You will find many members of the US armed forces (myself included) purchase non issue kit and its SOP in many units to equipped with all sorts of non issue. From Corcoran jump boots in the Airborne,Ranger/SF communities ( for ceremonial wear) to cleaning kits and gerbers. Not to mind camel backs before they were on issue.

  24. #124
    2/Lt strummer's Avatar
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    I have no problem with guys supplementing their issue gear with non-standard stuff. In fact i haven't come across a unit that doesn't do it. But I do have a huge problem with a chain of command that requires its soldiers to privately purchase gear when this very same stuff should be on issue.

    Kermit states that a training course had a packing list of official issue gear. His unit is not issuing this equipment. So, therefore, only those who go out and buy it with their own money, or "acquire" it, get to go on the exercise. All very fine for an NCO or Officer whose been around for a while. But what about the junior enlisted?

    Great way to maintain retention.!!!!

    BTW, Kermit, you still haven't directly answered most of the questions. Smartass quips don't count. God help your soldiers !!!


    Later.
    No-one, I think, is in my tree...

  25. #125
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    If we all rush out and blow what little spare cash we have, we will NEVER get into a situation where the RDF or the DOD collectively decide that there is a requirement to issue gear. They will simply leave it up to us to incur their costs as we are obviously willing to "equip" ourselves.

    My latest "Acquired" equipment includes a poncho, sleeping bag, tent pegs, bunji's, insect repellent and a mosi net, and none of this was issued, i DOUBT i wouldve gotten a sleeping system or poncho, but i am as much to blame for this situation as other gear queers, its now the expected response in the RDF that your wallet issues you.

    I have so far still refused to buy op boots and tell anyone that comments on the state of my parade boots that they are also my op boots.
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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