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  1. #26
    Nijmegen Neanderthal Eddie Dillon's Avatar
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    I don't either but I think it's much better to have AC pilots doing the flying. After all, the pilots are there, the facilities etc are in place and there doesn't seem to be any problems so why change it? It's not as if the AC has a surplus of aircraft and not enough pilots
    "Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied."

    Otto Von Bismark

  2. #27
    2/Lt strummer's Avatar
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    They should have contracted civilian pilots fly these aircraft. While it would be nice for some Gardai who have chopper tickets to be the force's "top guns", it would be an admin nightmare. The number of qualified garda pilots is low, certainly not enough to cover all shifts, sick time, leave, etc. And will they be happy receiving Garda pay for this position? Will they want a huge "Pilot Allowance?" Other members will be campaigning to receive flight training on the taxpayers dime. The Garda brass won't have the balls to tell them to get F*cked, because some Asst Commissioner's son may want the job in a few years...(it actually hapened!! They gave him a command position in the ERU instead !!!!).

    By letting the operation of the aircraft be the responsibility of a civilian contractor the force can wash its hands of all the nonsense admin and HR issues. They can demand a pilot for whenever they need, and not have to worry about coverage, shifts, sick time, leave, etc. It's all up to the contractor.

    From what I've heard, perhaps someone can confirm or deny, it isn't too hard to obtain an observers slot on the Air Support Unit. It's not that popular with the membership and has quite a high turnover. Surprises me, but then again, it wasn't a GASU member who told me, so I never attached much credence to it.


    Later.
    No-one, I think, is in my tree...

  3. #28
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Knowing one GASU member,and one Former member,it is very difficult to get into the unit,whose selection process is similar to ERU training. It is tougher to remain though,as fitness must be maintained(helis have a max take off weight) and you have no "return of work".

    Draw your own conclusions. The unit expanded greatly in recent years,however intakes are small,while applications are high. The selection process has a high dropout rate. Most young gardai Joined to arrest criminals,not watch them from the sky.

  4. #29
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/se...x?ID=JUN039268

    Title: Supply,Delivery of a new Eurocopter EC135 T2 Helicopter with McAlpine(MHL) Police Role Equipment Fit
    Awarding Authority: Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform
    Publication date: 14-Jun-2005
    Application Deadline:
    Tender Deadline Date: 09-Aug-2005
    Tender Deadline Time: 15:00
    Notice Type: Tenders
    Has Documents: Yes
    Abstract: The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, on behalf of An Garda Síochána, invites tenders for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Single Pilot IFR light helicopter, with full manufacturers warranty and McAlpine (MHL) Police Role Equipment Fit, to the stated specification, and delivery to Casement Aerodrome, Baldonnel, Co. Dublin, Ireland. The McAlpine Police Role Equipment Fit is the bathtub shaped pod fitted to the underbelly of the aircraft to house part of the role equipment etc. and to allow for a clutter free cabin.

    The primary mission will be to provide patrol and response capability in the assistance of operational ground units of An Garda Síochána, the Irish National Police Force. The aircraft will be required to operate by day and by night (subject to visual weather minima), with the broad objective being to seek out and identify the target, establish and maintain visual contract with the target while directing ground units to the scene or to intercept. The expected utilisation of the aircraft will be approx. 800 hours per annum.

    The aircraft will operate on the State (Military) Register.








    Additional Documents




    Description Name Size
    RFT for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochána RFT for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochána.doc 739840
    Revised RFT for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochán Revised RFT for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochána.doc 739840







    ( Express an interest in this notice to obtain these documents)
    Contact Information




    Main Contact: gardaprocurement@justice.ie
    Admin Contact: tendergs@iol.ie
    Technical Contact: N/a
    Other Contact: tendergs@iol.ie







    Full Notice Text


    I.2) Address from which further information can be obtained
    As in I.1 If different, see Annex A
    I.3) Address from which documentation may be obtained
    As in I.1 If different, see Annex A
    I.4) Address to which Tenders/Requests to participate must be sent
    As in I.1 If different, see Annex A
    I.5) Type of contracting Authority
    Central Level EU Institution Other
    Regional/local Level Body governed by public law

    Section II: Object of the Contract
    II.1) Description
    II.1.1) Type of works contract
    II.1.2) Type of supplies contract
    Purchase Rent Lease
    Hire-purchase Combination of these

    II.1.3) Type of service contract
    II.1.4) Is it a framework agreement
    No
    II.1.5) Title attributed to the contract by the contracting authority
    Supply,Delivery of a new Eurocopter EC135 T2 Helicopter with McAlpine(MHL) Police Role Equipment Fit
    II.1.6) Description/object of the contract
    The Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, on behalf of An Garda Síochána, invites tenders for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Single Pilot IFR light helicopter, with full manufacturers warranty and McAlpine (MHL) Police Role Equipment Fit, to the stated specification, and delivery to Casement Aerodrome, Baldonnel, Co. Dublin, Ireland. The McAlpine Police Role Equipment Fit is the bathtub shaped pod fitted to the underbelly of the aircraft to house part of the role equipment etc. and to allow for a clutter free cabin.


    The primary mission will be to provide patrol and response capability in the assistance of operational ground units of An Garda Síochána, the Irish National Police Force. The aircraft will be required to operate by day and by night (subject to visual weather minima), with the broad objective being to seek out and identify the target, establish and maintain visual contract with the target while directing ground units to the scene or to intercept. The expected utilisation of the aircraft will be approx. 800 hours per annum.


    The aircraft will operate on the State (Military) Register.



    NOTE: Further information relating to this notice is available on the eTenders Web Site at http://www.etenders.gov.ie/Search/Se....aspx?ID=12588.

    II.1.7) Site or location of works, place of delivery or performance
    Casement Aerodrome, Baldonnel, Co. Dublin, Ireland.

    NUTS Code IE021
    II.1.8) Nomenclature
    II.1.8.1) Common Procurement Vocabulary (CPV)
    Main vocabulary Supplementary vocabulary (when applicable)
    Main object 35312000
    Additional objects
    32323000
    32522000
    29812300
    32333000
    35351000

    II.1.8.2) Other relevant nomenclature (CPA/CPC)
    II.1.9) Division into lots
    No
    II.1.10) Will variants be accepted
    No
    II.2) Quantity or Scope of the Contract
    II.2.1) Total quantity or scope

    II.2.2) Options. Description and time when they may be exercised

    II.3) Duration of the contract or limit for completion
    Section III: Legal, Economic, Financial and Technical Information
    III.1) Conditions Relating to the Contract
    III.1.1) Deposits and guarantees required

    III.1.2) Main Terms of financing and payment and/or reference to the relevant provisions
    Payment for the supply and delivery of the aircraft, covered by this invitation to tender will be in accordance with the Prompt Payment of Accounts Act, 1997. All invoices must be submitted in Euro (€) and accompanied by a signed and stamped verification docket. Invoicing arrangements will be agreed with the successful supplier following the award of contract. The successful tenderer will be obliged to pay sub-contractors in accordance with the Prompt Payment of Accounts Act, 1997.

    III.1.3) Legal form to be taken by the grouping of suppliers, contractors or service providers to who legal contract is awarded

    III.2) Conditions for Participation
    III.2.1) General Conditions
    Please see RFT

    III.2.1.1) Legal Position - means of proof required
    III.2.1.2) Economic and Financial Capacity- means of proof required
    III.2.1.3) Technical Capacity- means of proof required
    Section IV: Procedure
    IV.1) Type of Procedure

    Open Accelerated Restricted
    Restricted Accelerated Negotiated
    Negotiated

    IV.1.1) Have candidates already been selected?
    No
    IV.1.2) Justification for the choice of accelerated procedure
    IV.1.3) Previous publication concerning the same contract
    IV.1.3.1) Prior information notice concerning the same contract
    Notice Number 2005/S 79-076400 of 22-04-2005
    IV.1.3.2) Other previous publications
    IV.1.4) Envisaged number of suppliers which will be invited to tender
    IV.2) Award Criteria
    A) Lowest Price No

    B) The most economically advantageous tender in terms of:

    B1) Criteria as stated below Yes
    1 - Technical & Operational Specification and Merit
    2 - Cost
    3 - Role Equipment Technical & Operational Specification and Merit
    4 - Product and Technical Support
    5 - Warranties

    In descending order of priority: Yes

    B2) Criteria as stated in contract documents: No

    IV.3 Administrative Information
    IV.3.1) Reference number attributed to the notice by the contracting authority
    T.184/2005
    IV.3.2) Conditions for obtaining contract document and additional documents
    Obtainable until

    Price (where applicable) Currency

    Terms and method of payment

    IV.3.3) Time-limit for receipt of tenders or requests to participate
    19-07-2005 Time (when applicable) 15:00
    IV.3.4) Dispatch of invitations to tender to selected candidates
    Estimated date

    IV.3.5) Language or languages in which tenders or requests to participate can be drawn up
    EN

    IV.3.6) Minimum time frame during which the tenderer must maintain its tender
    Until 16-11-2005
    IV.3.7) Conditions for opening tenders
    IV.3.7.1) Persons authorised to be present at the opening of tenders (where applicable)

    Tenders will be opened in the presence of at least three people. Persons authorised to be present at the opening of tenders will be determined by the contracting authority.
    IV.3.7.2) Date, time and place

    Date Time
    Place

    Section VI: Other Information
    VI.1) Is this notice a Non Mandatory one?
    No
    VI.2) Indicate Whether this Procurement is a Recurrent one and the Estimated Timing for Further Notices to be Published

    VI.3) Does the contract relate to a Project/Programme financed by EU Funds?
    No

    If yes, indicate the project/programme and any useful reference


    VI.4) Additional Information

    (ET Ref:12588)

    VI.5) Dispatch date of this Notice
    14-06-2005


    Further Information
    Information added to the notice since publication.





    14-Jun-2005 RFT for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochána
    Request for Tender for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochána.

    14-Jun Submission Deadline/Application Deadline Date(s) Changed
    The Deadline date was changed from 19-Jul-2005 to 9-August-2005.
    In correct date on Tender document

    15-Jun-2005 RFT for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochána
    Revised RFT for the supply and delivery of a new Eurocopter EC 135 T2 Helicopter to An Garda Síochána. Change of final date for receipt of queries to 26th July, 2005. Change of final date for receipt of tender proposals to 9th August, 2005.

  5. #30
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    They still have not decided whether the new machine wil replace the squirrell or whether it will operate alongside it.

  6. #31
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    They still have not decided whether the new machine wil replace the squirrell or whether it will operate alongside it.
    The decision was made. 255 will be replaced by a second EC135T2, provided(hopefully before the end of the year) by Mc Alpine. Parts commonality was the main reason, combined by the poor safety record of the type (255)in service in the UK. Quite a few of them have fallen out of the sky, and ours almost did.

  7. #32
    Vmax
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish
    The decision was made. 255 will be replaced by a second EC135T2, provided(hopefully before the end of the year) by Mc Alpine. Parts commonality was the main reason, combined by the poor safety record of the type (255)in service in the UK. Quite a few of them have fallen out of the sky, and ours almost did.

    Poor safety record???????.Care to elaborate on.

  8. #33
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vmax
    Poor safety record???????.Care to elaborate on.
    Situation involving GASU AS355N
    http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1280

    Air International has identified weight problems with the AS355N as much of the equipment is fixed, whereas the much of the EC135's role equipment is fitted in a removeable pod.

    Also not all parts of the EC135T1 and EC135T2 are compatiale, they have different engines.

  9. #34
    Commandant
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV
    Situation involving GASU AS355N
    http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1280

    Air International has identified weight problems with the AS355N as much of the equipment is fixed, whereas the much of the EC135's role equipment is fitted in a removeable pod.

    Also not all parts of the EC135T1 and EC135T2 are compatiale, they have different engines.
    Did I not read that the existing T1 has already been upgraded to T2?

  10. #35
    Vmax
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV
    Situation involving GASU AS355N
    http://www.aaiu.ie/AAIUviewitem.asp?...g=ENG&loc=1280

    Air International has identified weight problems with the AS355N as much of the equipment is fixed, whereas the much of the EC135's role equipment is fitted in a removeable pod.

    Also not all parts of the EC135T1 and EC135T2 are compatiale, they have different engines.

    Dev,

    As i understand it the current 135 operated by the GASU has been upgraded to a T2.The incident quoted above was pilot error, nothing to do with the safety record of the heli type.

  11. #36
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    If you read that report it mentions the large amount of accidents involving the type that year. Not specifically with the GASU. I recall a high profile Rally Driver was killed in one also not long ago. The Guy who bought L.E Deirdre was also Killed while flying in one...

  12. #37
    Vmax
    Guest
    Goldie,

    The reason I asked you to elaborate was the last part of your previous thread was quite sweeping.The impression I got from it was that the particular type of heli had safety problems.Bertie Fisher flew the single engined type AS 350.What happened to him was the same as what happened to S 255,they both flew into cloud by mistake.Sadly Mr Fisher and some members of his family lost their lives.Both these aircaft were mechanically sound. You will find that approx 85% of aircraft accidents are down to pilot error.

  13. #38
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    I suggest that rather than blaming me for my opinion, you read the 255 incident report on AAIU website.

    Its not my opinion, it is that of the Investigators of the Irish Aviation Authority.
    http://www.aaiu.ie/upload/general/3977-0.pdf

    A recent UK AAIB survey shows that since 1985 they investigated some 19 accidents and incidents involving AS 355 helicopters, five of which were totally destroyed.
    Hardly a good safety record?

  14. #39
    Potential Liability yellowjacket's Avatar
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    Hardly a good safety record?
    Compared to what, how does it compare to the numbers of Squirrels in circulation? What are accident levels for R22 and Jetrangers like comparitively?
    .
    .
    .
    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  15. #40
    Vmax
    Guest
    Goldie,
    I am not blaming you for your opinion or anything else for that matter.The reasons you give for the purchase of the second 135 are "parts commonality was the main reason combined with the AS 355's poor safety record in the uk". You seem to be missing the point.I have read the AAIU report regardig S 255,I have also read the uk AAIB reports.These include N models,F1 models,F2 models.Out of the sixteen accident reports four were caused by mechical failures,most on F models,the remaining TWELVE accidents WHICH INCLUDED FATALITIES were caused by pilot error.

  16. #41
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Parts commonality with the existing EC135T2. It will make the eventual handover of GASU ops to Non Air Corps operators a lot easier when only one type is in use. The Other issue which contributed to the Squirrels safety record was that of night flying. Having read the reports you will know this already, but Pilot training was always a weak area in the GASU, as there was no aircraft to train on. The squirrel, being the only one of type, already had a high workload, and time spent on pilot training was at best, minimal.
    Given the current situation where the Air Corps now operate the EC135P2, and the future situation where the GASU will operate 2 EC135T2, the transition from other air Corps aircraft will be a much simpler process, as will keeping pilots qualified on the type.
    As for Pilot error, it is a phrase often used when the controls of an aircraft worked against the pilot. It is also often used to pass off blame where the real cause is at a much higher level, i.e the aircraft was not suitable for the task it was intended for, in spite of the manufactuer stating otherwise, to ensure sales.

  17. #42
    2/Lt strummer's Avatar
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    Standardisation of aircraft types between Aer Corps and GASU? Eventual hand-off of GASU pilot operations to non-Aer Corps personnel?

    Look out for certain "soon to be retiring" or "just retired" politically connected officers starting a small law enforcement flight operations company or else landing senior management jobs with an already well established one.

    Cynical? Never !!!


    Later.
    No-one, I think, is in my tree...

  18. #43
    Vmax
    Guest
    Coldie,

    The parts commonality makes alot of sence, If you are suggesting operations been handed over to civies as well as the engineering end of things, thats a long way down the road I would think. The current 135 which sat in the UK for over a year was suppose to go on the civil register when purchased,that didn't happen due to certification problems with some of the equipment on board, so it ended up with a military number,I can't see that been changed. Lets see what reg either civil or mil will be on the new GASU 135.That will show you what way the powers that be are thinking in relation to this issue. In relation to the AS 355 not been up to the task for police work, I think its record speaks for itself.The GASU AS355 has been with the unit since 1998 flying according to the AAIU 1000 hours a year, thats twice the average commercial helis in Ireland fly. I say again pilot error been the reason for the report, although he did a good job getting himself out of that dangerous situation,others haven't been so lucky. The seventeen or so reports issued by independant investigators both here and in the UK (not influenced by manufacturers sales i might add) in relation to the AS 355 only three were about the "N" model, one was a mechanical problem(faulty luggage compartment door) the other two pilot error which included a fatality.
    It's all there in black and white for people to read.Pilot error in these reports covers alot of things from heavy landings, to landing down wind, to settling with power, to been above MAUW, to hitting overhead power cables, to flying into cloud.

  19. #44
    squigs
    Guest

    relax d khacks!!

    aside from all your theories surrounding future utilisation of the squirrel i have one. Am i right in saying the allouette(maby spelt wrong) is f***ed or will be shortly? the gazelle to maby? would it be possible for the squirrel to be stripped of its GASU colours and used to train heli pilots in Baldonnel? Im well aware of the of the recent arrival of the EC135's in case they are using them for training. i just thought that they might be better shall we say "combat ready"(aka S&R, army support).....any comments or has this subject already been and gone??

  20. #45
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Personally i would love top see the Squirrel being transfered to 302sqn to operate alongside the Eurocopter EC-135P2 utilizing the AS350 Squirell in the RISTA role (aswell capable on the EC135s) supporting Army Ground Elements providing Army Commanders in HQ with up to date intelligence of the battlefield or there Area Of Operations (AO) it be a great asset for training personnel in Kosovo like situations riot training while operating at night time with airborne C2 assets as well as under helicopter Searchlights the squirell are equiped with FLIR thermal imaging pod,TV camera package (mounted under the machine noise, NightSun Searchlight aswell as being able to be a airborne communications relay point (probly would be have to be have to retro-fitted for SINGARS)

    It is also capable of carrying Armed Interdiction Teams (as dsiplayed on many occasions by Four Man Teams of the Emergancy Response Unit (ERU) so it would be easily capable of Carrying equivilant members of the ARW or insert other Army Recce Units Teams i.e Cav or Infantry etc.. As listed above are some of the tasks the helicopter could preform in the Army Support role and thats why i would leave to new modern EC-135s to train/refresh the new and current pilots utilizing it for traing aswell as it for it other alloted tasks but i have to say its great to see reasonable taught being put into the future use of such a still excellent helicopter such as the Squirrel!!!!

    Oh by the way Failte go dtí an bord Squigs
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  21. #46
    Sqdn. Ldr Silver's Avatar
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    Nice idea, however I can't see it happening.

    Why? Because the AC are trying to achieve fleet commonality and by adding the Squirrel this would leave them with 3 types of helis rather than two (i.e. EC-135 and AB139 - when A3's are gone).
    IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

  22. #47
    squigs
    Guest
    go raibh matih agat chun failte "an max gorm". Yes this standardisation business....i suppose i understand it, with the standard aircraft only needing engineers with the standard training, basically money saved in the long term. But do the aer corp not already have personnel trained on this aircraft? Just because this idea is not "uniform" and fitting in with the "streamlined" standardisation does not mean it should be over looked. Perhaps there are still alot of factors i have over looked, so im open to argument although i think there was no need to even request that!! ha

  23. #48
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    I'd say the Dept. of Justice would have a problem with your idea Squigs, seeing as how they bought the aircraft for Garda use.
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

  24. #49
    squigs
    Guest
    damn you....i knew somone would catch me! sure ask willie o to have a word with them...the unmarked cars seem to move faster than the actual helicopters....they dont need them!!...but seriously, would there be alot of hassel in changing its role? I'm not familiar with the proceedure.......

  25. #50
    King Monkey FMolloy's Avatar
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    Why would the DoJ part with expensive & useful aircraft that they bought for Garda use?
    "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

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