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Should medics have weapons training???

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  • #61
    MERGE

    No you havent gone mad.

    As this topic has been debated previously, I have merged both threads.

    Regards etc

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    • #62
      Originally posted by FMolloy
      You lot don't need weapons, you're a big enough danger as it is! :D
      I have no idea what that is ment to mean, so I will take it as a complement.

      but joker you could probably sit for hours telling us about the wpns
      Even though I am not weapons trained or TOET what ever that mean.

      [ MOD Edited. See PM]

      :D
      Who ever said that you need training!!!
      Last edited by Joshua; 26 November 2003, 14:34.
      If your not in bed by 4 o' clock it's time to go home!

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      • #63
        joker,

        by the mod editing i can see that you saw the funny side to my post:D ,

        keep safe.

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        • #64
          Yes, Medics should have wepons becase in a battle if i get shot, I want the person thats trying to save my life to be able to defend his own an possably mine.

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          • #65
            Medics

            Why are medics exempt from ARPs?

            I thought everyone did them for grat and so on. But they don't have to do them. Why is that?

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            • #66
              AMC personnel do weapons training as part of career courses (recruit, 2*-3*, PNCO etc). To the best of my knowledge once serving as medics they no longer do weapons training (not sure why as PDF medics do, having said that it gives them more time to concentrate on their corps skills).

              In lieu of being exempt from APWTs (TOETs & ARPs) in order to qualify for grat they have to do the equivalent of a extra field day. Ie:

              Other Corps: 8 training parades + 4 overnights + APWTs + min 7 days FTT
              AMC: 8 training parades + 4 overnights + 1 field day + min 7 days FTT

              Under the Geneva Conventions medics can only carry & use weapons for defence of themselves & their casualties.
              Last edited by DeV; 22 May 2009, 09:45.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by DeV View Post
                Under the Geneva Conventions medics can only carry & use weapons for defence of themselves & their casualties.
                ... which would make you wonder why RDF medics aren't annually qualified in the same
                manner....
                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                • #68
                  RELATED THREAD

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                  • #69
                    The idea of medics carrying arms is not clear cut.

                    Geneva convention allows for medics to carry a wepon for defence.

                    Does the convention not also prohibits the attacking of un-armed persons.
                    If a medic is armed he becomes a legitimate target. Hence you would only arm a medic if you believed that the enemy was not going to respect the convention to begin with.
                    Without supplies no army is brave.

                    —Frederick the Great,

                    Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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                    • #70
                      I dont think the Taliban Or Iraqi insurgents would really care what the Geneva convention says about unarmed people be they soldiers or civillians.
                      All they see is a uniform they dont care whether it has a red cross on the sleve or not.
                      Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.sigpic

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                      • #71
                        Not sure about elsewhere but I've seen pictures of medics carrying weapons overseas - USP in Kosovo and Steyr in Chad

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by fred the red View Post
                          I dont think the Taliban Or Iraqi insurgents would really care what the Geneva convention says about unarmed people be they soldiers or civillians.
                          All they see is a uniform they dont care whether it has a red cross on the sleve or not.

                          The Americans and the Brits arm there medics in Iraq and Afganisthan, as there fighting a unconventional force so they must fight back as an unconventional force. To abide by the Geneva convention you must sign up to it, though the Americans and Brits have signed up to it, there enemy has not, so they arm everyone there sending out on the ground, basically cause they can.
                          Don't stand there GAWPING, like you've never seen the hand of God BEFORE!!

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                          • #73
                            I would agree with what Fred said there.

                            And applying common sense too, when the brown sticky stuff hits the fan, once a person sees an enemy soldier in uniform, the initial thought is "bang bang".
                            So if you ask me, a medic is still a fellow comrade, and he/she should be given the chance and training to know how to defend themselves and their casualty.
                            As well as making weapons safe and so on.

                            But I have met medics on my travels that are up to speed on the steyr. And up to a pretty good level with the weapon too I might add. So they are receiving training on it, but whether or not that is the same for all medics I don't know.

                            But in my opinion, rifleman first, medic second, signalman second, driver second, etc.
                            So you should know a competent level of riflemanship and tactical awareness, because its the kind of know how that can save your life. As well as being par for the course in my eyes.
                            I am not putting medics down by the way when I say that. I know that they do a great deal of training, and its intense and varied too.

                            But this thread is about whether they get weapons training, and the answer is that they do. But I am not sure if that is for all of them. Although, the medics I encountered were a Cpl and two privates. So there is a degree of training that they do.

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                            • #74
                              As a medic I have received weapons training on several different occasion, but as pointed out is was mostly geared towards career courses.

                              I have never found any problem with access to weapons and training in our unit.

                              Again as previously stated there is a lot of course material for the 2* - 3 Star course and this is which takes up the majority of the training hours.

                              I am open to correction on this but the Medical Companys of the 3 LSBs around the country complete ARPs but the MMF and LBH dont.

                              The medics from the East that were in Chad on the last rotation were routinely armed - article in An Cosantoir to support this

                              I would welcome the fact if RDF Medics were required to complete ARPs
                              Last edited by Liachta Cultaca; 22 May 2009, 17:41.
                              I went into an Italian restaurant and ordered dessert and they gave me tiramisu and a blindfolded horse and I said No, I said mask a pony (mascarpone)

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by mallen83 View Post
                                But in my opinion, rifleman first, medic second, signalman second, driver second, etc.
                                You would be correct in every case except for the medic.
                                Signalman, driver ets are just soldiers with jobs. Being in the AMC is not just a job.

                                Medics are not just Ptes and NCOs who decided to joun the AMC.
                                Many medical personnel have made a concious decision that they want to save life. They can not be obliged to take up arms. In some of the footage of Iraq that can be found you will see un armed US army medics. I can only assume it is their personnal choice.

                                If you shoot and wound one of the enemy the medic has as much of a duty of care towards that enemy as he has to you.
                                Without supplies no army is brave.

                                —Frederick the Great,

                                Instructions to his Generals, 1747

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