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  • #61
    Well the U.S Coast Guard bought a lot of Dauphins and are having nothing but problems with them as well and several deadly crashes . So in all fairness the A.Care not the only ones that bought a bad product .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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    • #62
      here we go again with the abbreviations!!!What's MATS stand for lads?

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      • #63
        Ministerial air transport
        Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

        Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

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        • #64
          Question- what would the helicopter requirement be if the DF were to be in a position to transport a light infantry battalion and (just for shits & giggles) including vehicles to any point on this island.

          I'm talking dumping a force of armed men very quickly, as per "When We Were Soldiers" (Mel Gibson) and Black Hawk Down.

          What other support is required to achieve this with vehicles? Is there any military unit (I'm guessing USMC if any) in the world that can achieve this, and if so at what notice (from making the call to touching the ground at target destination).

          It'll never happen I know, I'm just curious as to whether it COULD happen.
          Take these men and women for your example.
          Like them, remember that posterity can only
          be for the free; that freedom is the sure
          possession of those who have the
          courage to defend it.
          ***************
          Liberty is being free from the things we don't like in order to be slaves of the things we do like.
          ***************
          If you're not ready to die for it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary.

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          • #65
            Hi all
            You have to remember that when the Dauphin was being selected, it was percieved as an Alouette replacement and as such, it was a great leap forward. Electronic cockpit,composite airframe, higher time-between-overhaul,etc. The fact that it was equipped with almost every "option" in the book made it overweight, range-limited and the small cabin meant that it could only carry one or two prone survivors. Personally,I blame the selection committee, who touted it above all else and declined to listen to the Engineering staff, both Officers and men, who expected trouble and got it in spades. The infrastructure did not exist to transit from a 1960s aircraft to a 1980s aircraft, a huge generational leap and the Don ended up being the unofficial test bed for Aerospatiale. We could not hope to conduct deep-water SAR with such a small, short-ranged airframe,small-cabin aircraft, when what we really needed was an S-61 sized aircraft. The selectors were obsessed with the new technology and the promises made by the manufacturer and ultimately, the Dauphin has been a partial failure, because it's technology has educated a generation of pilots and technicians.Besides, the Don aren't the only branch of service to buy the "wrong" gear and then have to backpedal when criticised. Equally, you'll never get everyone to like the stuff you buy.
            regards
            GttC

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            • #66
              what other aircraft were being selected at the same time as the Dauphin?
              "Gentlemen, you can’t fight in here...this is the War Room!"

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              • #67
                The Navy Lynx and the super Puma. Lynx for P30 class and Puma for troop transport/SAR. In 1983 the industry was pretty confident that Ireland would be ordering 2 super Pumas, as the single Puma had impressed many(except the bean counters). As often mentioned before,Eithnes hangar was designed for a Navy Lynx. Promotional drawing at the time show a far smaller P30 class with a lynx on the helideck.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                • #68
                  GTC puts the whole thing in perspective!

                  BTW the USCG have just signed a comtract for another re enging package of the HH65 Dolphin fleet.

                  These were bought at the same time as ours but in greaters number swith far less shiny kit...and they are still going strong.
                  We on the other hand by the shiniet toy on the shelf in minimal batches work the shit out of it an expect it to last indefinetly....and bitch like hell when it dosent' and fail to remember how we ended up with it in the first place.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by JAG
                    Question- what would the helicopter requirement be if the DF were to be in a position to transport a light infantry battalion and (just for shits & giggles) including vehicles to any point on this island.
                    A LOT of helicopters ... Puma HC.1 (in service with RAF since 1971) which carries up to 16 fully equipped troops (20 in CEFO) requires 34 lifts to move a infantry battalion of around 625 troops. Thats 2 SERVICABLE Pumas requiring 16 return journies.

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                    • #70
                      I suspect (hope!) the plan is to purchase a total of six 139's, followed by 4 x medium lift helis within 3-5 years.
                      IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

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                      • #71
                        The way I see it, the helicopter force is being rebuilt from the beginning,ignoring all experience gained from the Dauphin,or rather learning from th emistakes made and rethinking how the aircraft are used.
                        In the past all rotary wing assets were there to provide SAR,or to support same. Military transport was a secondary task,which was largely impractical due to the SAR commitment.
                        So we are starting again,with the 2 EC135s,which are small enough to be suitable for training,but big enough to be available for air ambulance or MATS.
                        The 4 AB139s can then be retained for Military transport,training in troop transport and working with underslung loads. The intention has clearly been to not deploy them overseas, keeping them at home to allow troops training for overseas rotation to train in helicopter operations. This was an area that was largely neglected until East Timor,when things had to be learnt fast.
                        Using them for SAR should only be something for dire emergencies.
                        If the AB 139 proves successful,and I hope it does then maybe the option for another 2 can be exercised,and in time,maybe this aircraft will become the backbone of the rotary wing fleet in the same way as the ageing alouettes have been for the last 40 years. Remember we started with 3 Alouettes.

                        Perhaps then when the pilots have regained the skills necessary for 24 hour all weather flying,which were more or less lost as the Dauphin became obsolete and ineffective,they can consider the need for a number of larger types,if for nothing else,to get the many overseas rotations used to operating with a larger type.

                        Its often been said here,you cannot go from basic trainer to fast fighter jet in one step,and its expensive to have interim aircraft purely for training purposes. The future rotary wing fleet will provide the lower end of the Heli ability,capable of being used for initial training,while still retaining practical usefulness.
                        Given the chance that it could be another 20 years before the Government decide to throw money at the Air Corps,I think the new arrangements would be much better than having,as what was to have been the case if the MLH had gone through, €100m split between 4 massive aircraft that nobody is trained to fly,because the only aircraft capable of training pilots became too old to operate safely,and the Department couldnt afford to replace them.


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Silver
                          I suspect (hope!) the plan is to purchase a total of six 139's, followed by 4 x medium lift helis within 3-5 years.
                          It would probaly make a lot more sense to just buy the first 6 and then add another 6-8 AB139's in future years, and stay out of the Medium lift helicopter busness altogether.
                          "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                          Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                          Illegitimi non carborundum

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                          • #73
                            12-14 helic capable of carrying a section each,plus gear would indeed be nice. Without SAR, is there still a need for MLH?


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                            • #74
                              Collective in one hand stick in the other ...how simple can it be..I think its time that some of the higher ups just fell on their own swords rather than sending the other guy out to do it for them.
                              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                              • #75
                                The PwC report recommended that the number of barracks be reduced ... that has been done, and whether the Minister, or anyone else, likes it or not it makes sense for PDF barracks to be reduced further.

                                It was proposed that the transport fleet be drastically upgraded and MLHs be purchased in order to make the DF more deployable at home, while making up for closed barracks.

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