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The help Ireland gave to the allies during WWII

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  • #61
    Carringtons comments in the 'good books' thread reminded me about this -

    The best of the BBC, with the latest news and sport headlines, weather, TV & radio highlights and much more from across the whole of BBC Online


    Anyone shed any light ?
    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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    • #62
      Irish co-operation with the Allies during the war was a mixture of official and personal initiatives of varying degrees of significance. Some of it was humanitarian eg. assistance to rescuing British seamen and airmen. Some practical: interning British airmen who happened to land on Irish soil was only a cost to the Irish nation; Some of it was of self-interest: eg ensuring that espionage elements did not reignite Ira campaigns against the Irish state; some of it was based on ideological preferences towards one side or the other. Some of it could hardly be avoided: the air corridor over Donegal for the flying boats in Lough Erne was hardly worth starting a shooting war over. Given Ireland's proximity to Britain and its many deep and personal associations with the British and American populations Irish co-operation was of a low-level and incidental kind and in comparison to other non-belligerent states such as Sweden and Portugal our adherence to a neutral position was quite firm.

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      • #63
        Hi All
        Tony, the Luftwaffe did lose aircraft to the deception of "bending" the beams, one in particular being Do 217 U5+DK, near Cambridge, in 1941.The crew baled out after having used up their fuel, having wandered around for hours, trying to track home wards.The captain stated under questioning that he believed himself to be over The Wash, when they baled out.The aircraft belly-landed almost intact.
        regards
        GttC

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        • #64
          Hi all
          I'm correcting myself...the Do217 crashed on the night of 23rd February, 1944, with all the crew of 4 survivng their baleouts.
          Goldie, the Germans had a system called CONSOL, which used master and slave stations, and whose equipment survived in use after WW II in Europe.
          regards
          GttC

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          • #65
            Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
            Hi All
            Tony, the Luftwaffe did lose aircraft to the deception of "bending" the beams, one in particular being Do 217 U5+DK, near Cambridge, in 1941.The crew baled out after having used up their fuel, having wandered around for hours, trying to track home wards.The captain stated under questioning that he believed himself to be over The Wash, when they baled out.The aircraft belly-landed almost intact.
            regards
            GttC
            Interesting GttC, I have that loss as Do217M-1 Werke nr.56051 U5+DK ,2 nd Staffel KG2 as hit by AA guns West London, crew baled out and aircraft then flew north and as you say landed near Cambridge. This unit did lose a Do217 as a result of Meaconing when in the area of N.Devon it landed eventually at Lydd in Kent.That was in October 1941

            My reference to Beams was purely in respect of the operation of the X and Y systems in sorties over Ireland and west coast England. The signal was VHF and was not used on operations when attacking for example Belfast and Glasgow, and as the German crewman, pilots, observers and radio operators mentioned to me, the signal was so weak they ignored it.
            Tony K

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            • #66
              Hi Tony,
              The story about U5+DK, as I read it, was that they had become confused by "meaconing"(electronic jamming and false beacon tracks) and were off course, with no visual clues as to where they were. They did come under AA fire and, eventually, they baled out, as their fuel was insufficient to reach France.The pilot had done such a good job of trimming the bomber straight and level that it bellied in, itself, when it ran out of fuel.Unfortunately, the airframe was twisted and the British were unable to make it fit for flight.When questioned by their captors, the crew claimed that one engine had caught fire from AA hits.This didn't tally with the condition of the engine, as the British had found it, which led them to believe that the crew were lost and had chosen captivity rather than risk a Channel crossing with a defective engine and low fuel.I believe that the AA were credited with the shoot-down to prevent knowledge of the electronic deception from becoming known to the Luftwaffe.I've read a lot about this kind of deception, though.How good was it in reality??
              I presume the Luftwaffe crews just used normal navigation techniques when out of range of the beams.
              regards
              GttC

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              • #67
                Originally posted by spider View Post
                Carringtons comments in the 'good books' thread reminded me about this -

                The best of the BBC, with the latest news and sport headlines, weather, TV & radio highlights and much more from across the whole of BBC Online


                Anyone shed any light ?
                After service, one of the MTB's was sold into private owner ship and was eventually abandoned on the mud flats alongside the railway near Dunkettle, Cork. I noticed it's rotting hull for years as I passed on the train. It was eventually swallowed up by the approach road to the Jack Lynch tunnel. I've no idea as to which one it was.

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                • #68
                  Hi all
                  Same here, TP.I was well surprised when I found out it was one of the MTBs.Are there any MTBs left, not even Irish ones, anywhere? I know there is one on a plinth in Lido di Jesolo,Ravenna, in Italy,if anyone's on hols out that direction.
                  regards
                  GttC

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                  • #69
                    Theres a few left -

                    Coastal Forces Heritage Trust covers small craft operating under RN command for offensive / defensive purposes from 1919 to the present day.




                    The British military powerboats of the 1930s and 1940s were the finest in the world. Developed from a series of record breaking speedboats, these rugged, graceful craft were so far ahead of their time that their design has never been surpassed


                    A marina not far from me used one up until about 10 yrs ago, until it was destroyed in a fire. The keel is all thats left.

                    Pity no-one thought to preserve any of the Irish MTB's.
                    'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                    • #70
                      Preservation is not something one thinks of when you are trying to dispose of an unsuitable piece of equipment. Its value only becomes obvious after it is gone. Same goes for the Flower class. Only one survives today of thousands built, and that one includes a piece of the Irish Flowers, the Pom Pom.


                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                      • #71
                        Yep,

                        looking at the histories of the few that survive in the UK, it seems that the only reason they are around was because they were converted to house boats, used by Sea Cadets etc. No-one actually thought about preserving one up until the 1970's. Pure luck that they have survived.

                        That Flower Class Corvette is a must visit for me, some day.
                        'History is a vast early warning system'. Norman Cousins

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                        • #72
                          HMCS Sackville.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by kermit
                            The following is an extract from a report at the time by A/Comdt M.P. MacCarthy
                            OC AA Battalion to OC Air Defence Command, Dublin Castle.

                            This incident is probably the most famous in the units history and I have read this report several times over and I still find it hard to believe or imagine a night like this occurring over the skies of Dublin. It must have been terrifying for both those on the ground and the German crews in the air, who were more then likely lost. 1 ADR (then AA Bn), are the only Army unit to see action during the Second World War.

                            …23:48hrs 30/5/41 unauthorised aircraft heard east off Carnsore, Co Wexford, and moving north. "Air Raid Message Yellow" given to AA defences in Dublin.

                            …23:58hrs 30/5/41 unauthorised aircraft now at Wicklow Head and still moving north "Air Raid Message Red" is now given.

                            …numerous exposures were made from time to time between 00:04hrs 31/5/41 and 02:13 by searchlights on aircraft heard in the vicinity of Dublin. Aircraft were successfully illuminated for AA gun action on three occasions.

                            …00:35hrs, Clontarf AA Gun Outpost opened fire on an unauthorised aircraft seen illuminated east of post, moving north. Height 7,000ft four rounds of 3.7inch were fired.

                            …01:28hrs Ringsend AA Gun Outpost opened fire on unauthorised aircraft illuminated seen North West of post moving South East. Height 8,000ft four rounds of 3.7inch were fired.

                            …01:28, Clontarf AA Gun Outpost opened fire on unauthorised aircraft illuminated West of Post, moving South. Height 8,000ft four rounds of 3.7inch were fired.

                            …01:31, Ballyfermot AA Gun Outpost opened fire on an unauthorised aircraft seen illuminated East of Post. Height 8,000ft four rounds of 3inch were fired. Aircraft took avoiding action and jinked from beams before rounds were observed to burst.

                            …01:30, Stillogran AA Gun Outpost opened fire on two unauthorised aircraft seen illuminated NorthWest. Height 8,000ft four rounds of 3inch were fired.

                            During this engagement the aircraft took avoiding action and green flares were seen to be drooped which coincided with bombs being drooped in the Phoenix Park. The pilots deemed it necessary to jettison their bombloads rather then risk getting hit with them onboard.

                            …01:30hrs, Collinstown AA Gun Outpost opened fire with two Bofors 40mm and four Hotchkiss .303inch Machine Guns on an unauthorised monoplane seen over post. Height 2-3,000ft 54 rounds of 40mm and 248 rounds of .303inch were fired.

                            …01:45, Collinstown AA Gun Outpost saw a twin engined monoplane approaching. The outpost opened fire with two Bofors 40mm and four Hotchkiss Machine guns. Firing 58 40mm rounds and 490 .303inch rounds.

                            This period of "Alert" lasted from 23:48hrs 30/5/41to 02:32hrs 31/5/41. Within this period of alert bombs were dropped in the following areas in Dublin City resulting in the loss of life and the damage of property; Summerhill Parade, North Circular Road, Phoenix Park, Newcomon Bridge and North Strand.

                            Another period of "Alert" occurred on the same night from 03:45hrs to 04:15hrs but there was only minor action over Dalkey AA Gun Outpost.
                            ..

                            Does anyone have a link to this article, I think it was published in An Cosantoir a few years ago but I can't track it down. I think the name of the article was 'Air Raid Warning Red' or something like that.
                            "Attack your attic with a Steyr....as seen on the Late Late Show..."

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                            • #74


                              for some further reading

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Steamy Window View Post

                                Pym: a Ju88 landed at Gormo in May '45 and was flown away by the RAF for evaluation of the radar.
                                Just found this, and can vouch for the truth of it - I remember my father telling me he saw it take off...
                                I vaguely remember him saying that there was difficulty in getting it to take off, and the German pilot had to assist in some way.
                                Last edited by Flamingo; 13 February 2013, 02:52.
                                'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                                'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                                Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                                He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                                http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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