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  • Originally posted by chrisr View Post
    Times & Indo are calling our new RiB order as 'ships'. Classic error from landlubbers. However the PfG requires us to reconsider Irelands ETV needs and report in 2012.
    How would CG man this? Bareboat charter with own crew or have a contractor provide everything? How about CG vessel with NS crew?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
      Would it not be easier to put the Coast Guard, and the Air Corps maritime assets under the control of the Naval service, who already have almost 70 years expertise in the area, compared to a Coast Guard who as yet have no ships, no aircraft and management made up of former members of the Naval service?

      Your suggestion means little more than repainting the grey ships red and white.
      Would have to agree with Goldie. They are the only agency in the maritime sphere in Ireland with the support & maintenance infrastructure to maintain a fleet. All other services contract in the maintenance & support. That's where the long term cost is.


      Originally posted by DeV View Post
      It may consolidate the mission but not the cost.
      As per Dev's comment ref costs, it would of course consolidate costs, you would be merging numerous command & control structures, along with the contracted maintenance by the smallers orgs & the maintenance facility & staff of the dockyard in the NS under one aegis. That is exactly what VFM should be to a country.
      Christ, take it a step further, re-instigate the drydock in the basin, & drydock all govt vessels there. Cork Dockyard doesn't look like it has long left!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
        Christ, take it a step further, re-instigate the drydock in the basin, & drydock all govt vessels there. Cork Dockyard doesn't look like it has long left!!
        I heard €15m and a PPP could get it operating. Cork dockyard is finished. The cranes are being scrapped one by one, only 2 left now, and neither are near the drydock. The floating dock was scrapped before it sunk on the spot. Since the electrical fire in the paint shop a few years ago, the owners have put no investment into its upgrade. The owners just want to clear the site so Port of Cork will buy it from them for a downstream cargo port.


        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
          Would have to agree with Goldie. They are the only agency in the maritime sphere in Ireland with the support & maintenance infrastructure to maintain a fleet. All other services contract in the maintenance & support. That's where the long term cost is.


          As per Dev's comment ref costs, it would of course consolidate costs, you would be merging numerous command & control structures, along with the contracted maintenance by the smallers orgs & the maintenance facility & staff of the dockyard in the NS under one aegis. That is exactly what VFM should be to a country.
          Christ, take it a step further, re-instigate the drydock in the basin, & drydock all govt vessels there. Cork Dockyard doesn't look like it has long left!!
          Absolutely..... but the same argument says the AC should keep the CASAs.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
            Absolutely..... but the same argument says the AC should keep the CASAs.
            Very valid point & would contend that the experts there should be in charge of the maint of same. The location & positioning of MPAs is an argument going back a long while, don't think we'll solve it here also.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
              How would CG man this? Bareboat charter with own crew or have a contractor provide everything? How about CG vessel with NS crew?
              Maybe the same as the two reserch vessels owned by the State, but operated and managed by P&O Marine Services , kinda like the coast guard chopper service .
              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dogwatch View Post
                Very valid point & would contend that the experts there should be in charge of the maint of same. The location & positioning of MPAs is an argument going back a long while, don't think we'll solve it here also.
                Valid points all round. But mine is, the country is really too small for a Navy, but we have the ideal beginnings of a very efficent Coastguard.If everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.And put in a (dark) blue suit. There was a state of flux in the early 20th century in the UK when the RFC, RNAS, were merging into the RAF and Fleet Air Arm respectivly. There were cases of Flight Sgts RFC, serving for years on the old carrier Argus. As i said before it would take a bit of work, but IMHO it would eventually be for the best. Incidently. You have heard the definition of an 'expert'? EX as in has been, and SPURT, as in under pressure

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jack nastyface View Post
                  Valid points all round. But mine is, the country is really too small for a Navy, but we have the ideal beginnings of a very efficent Coastguard.If everyone was singing from the same hymn sheet.And put in a (dark) blue suit.
                  The country is not too small for ONE navy. It is too small for all the navies we have here. Everything Government owned on water should be managed from Haulbowline. The economies of scale should make it a no-brainer. Instead we have the different organisations with often common purposes are all fighting for the small budget that is available each year. That is not to say the people in the organisations are not able to do their job, but the management structures often replicate that in other agencies.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                    The country is not too small for ONE navy. It is too small for all the navies we have here. Everything Government owned on water should be managed from Haulbowline. The economies of scale should make it a no-brainer. Instead we have the different organisations with often common purposes are all fighting for the small budget that is available each year. That is not to say the people in the organisations are not able to do their job, but the management structures often replicate that in other agencies.
                    Thats basically what im saying. call it what you want, base it where you want, but get it all under the one umbrella, and moving forward together.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by chrisr View Post
                      Times & Indo are calling our new RiB order as 'ships'. Classic error from landlubbers. However the PfG requires us to reconsider Irelands ETV needs and report in 2012.
                      Quite remarkable given that in the 2011 annual report of the UK Coastguard confirming that it can no longer justify the cost of ETV cover and will save £10M annually by discontinuing it.If the UK which has much more traffic in its waters cannot justify such a service then waste of time reconsidering it here.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by danno View Post
                        Quite remarkable given that in the 2011 annual report of the UK Coastguard confirming that it can no longer justify the cost of ETV cover and will save £10M annually by discontinuing it.If the UK which has much more traffic in its waters cannot justify such a service then waste of time reconsidering it here.
                        I think that is short sightedness on the part of the HM Coastguard. Do they not remember the ferry that ran aground on the West Coast, the MSC Napoli? See also in NZ that container ship has now broken in two. Not to mention closer to home,the Cargo ship that sunk before christmas with the loss of most of the crew off wales, the tanker that is waiting to be repaired in Belfast.
                        What price do you put on maritime safety? How much does the environmental cleanup cost when a car ferry collides with a tanker adrift in the Dover straits?


                        Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                        Comment


                        • Fair enough but the MCA have probably done an in depth risk/return study which allowed its decision.It may well be that there are plenty of tugs/anchor crankers in the UK that can be deployed and it may well be that the stricken ship is in a irretreivable situation regardless of the availability of help.The whiff of a Lloyds open contract may well be the best type of support needed.
                          Over here a full time ETV managed by whoever would not be affordable,the CIL ship is as good as it gets,nothing stopping the NS getting a ETV,arming it and using for general patrols with the towing/salvage contingency capability being there when needed.

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                          • The CIL ship has too much gantry aft to be a useful tug.
                            As a contingency it is ideal though. A naval ETV, armed for normal duties, with the crew trained to operate it in the towing role, when necessary.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • With the capability to take a stern anchor from the towing wire aft & deckspace for one/two containers and a LARS skid aft.

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                              • Algerian ETV


                                Currently alongside Faslane, Scotland.

                                Algeria
                                In 2010 Algeria has ordered three tug boats of the Bourbon class which is already in use in the French harbours of Brest and Cherbourg. The ships have been built by STX OSV in Norway and STX Tulcea in Romania. A first vessel El Moundjid was ready for delivery in December 2011, the two others are scheduled for delivery in June and September 2012.
                                With a bollard pull of 200 tons and a speed of 20 knots (37 km/h; 23 mph), the Algerian ETVs are an improved version of the French Bourbon class. They will be based in Oran and Skikda. By acquiring these three ships, Algeria has become the leading Mediterranean nation in terms of marine salvage.

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